WHats the strategy in calling an election for BJ?

[odyssey06]

Am reading a book covering the UK from 1979-1982, "Who Dares Wins" by Dominic Sandbrook.

I thought it was remarkable that polls during that period regularly showed large majorities in favour of leaving the then EEC (66%), and it was a policy of the Labour party under Michael Foot, agreed at the party conference - but not the Conservatives under Margaret Thatcher.

 

[Leo]

which specialised in burning homes, religious discrimination against other denominations as well as killings

Where do you think we learned all those practices?

 

[Purple]

Where do you think we learned all those practices?

In fairness we were never as good at those things as the British but they were world class at that sort of thing.

 

[Royanne]

The Irish have been practicing their national sport for hundreds of years and still blaming those dastardly British.

Sure, didn't the British cause blight on the potatoes as well and the Irish had to go to Amerkay as well as the cattle boats to the ould enemy.

Mind you, the Irish made sure the sons of the Emerald Paddies got all the good jobs in the police and fire departments in the great cities of Amerikay on merit alone. As for religion the Irish were always great at Christianity-is that not self evident even in the Oirish Republic.
A peace loving tolerant people as long as you are not a refugee or a 'non catholic', black, or traveller.

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

What did the English ever do for us?
Oh, they gave us our legal system.
Oh, and our parliamentary democracy.
Oh, and the language of global technology, commerce and diplomacy
Oh, they saved us from Nazi domination of Europe (Godwin's Law)
Oh, they saved us from tearing ourselves apart in a sectarian civil war
Oh, they defeated a guerrilla army intent on making us a 32 county socialist republic
And of course they gave us the BBC for free!

 

[Purple]

The Irish have been practicing their national sport for hundreds of years and still blaming those dastardly British.

Sure, didn't the British cause blight on the potatoes as well and the Irish had to go to Amerkay as well as the cattle boats to the ould enemy.

Mind you, the Irish made sure the sons of the Emerald Paddies got all the good jobs in the police and fire departments in the great cities of Amerikay on merit alone. As for religion the Irish were always great at Christianity-is that not self evident even in the Oirish Republic.
A peace loving tolerant people as long as you are not a refugee or a 'non catholic', black, or traveller.

Feel better now?
Were you making an actual point there?

The British have given the world a lot; one of the biggest empired the world had seen and therefore one of most comprehensive mass oppressions ever as all empires are built on blood, murder and suffering. They also gave the world the concentration camp, deliberate germ warfare, a good few genocides, mass religious oppression and so much more.
This country has many dark chapters in our history and many bad points now. Some of the Brits glorify their savagery, their murder, their oppression and try to Brexit their way back to those days of glory.

 

[Purple]

What did the English ever do for us?
Oh, they gave us our legal system.
Oh, and our parliamentary democracy.
Oh, and the language of global technology, commerce and diplomacy
Oh, they saved us from Nazi domination of Europe (Godwin's Law)
Oh, they saved us from tearing ourselves apart in a sectarian civil war
Oh, they defeated a guerrilla army intent on making us a 32 county socialist republic
And of course they gave us the BBC for free!

We had a legal system before they got here and they didn't speak english at that time anyway due to the evolution of their own language and the fact that their leaders spoke the language of their conquerors; French. My daughter is learning Spanish in school. I don't see an invasion by Spain as an essential part of that particular curriculum.

The Russians defeated the Nazis and the Americans stopped the Russians roiling across Europe. The British did help but they were bit players.

Why were we having a Civil War in the first place?

I don't think the IRA would have overthrown the State since even by the mid 70's they had lost any sort of popular support here due to the fact that they were murdering scum.

I do like the BBC but we'd get that anyway.

 

[Leo]

Sure, didn't the British cause blight on the potatoes as well and the Irish had to go to Amerkay as well as the cattle boats to the ould enemy.

It's a sad day when you find the guy who tried to blame the famine on a volcano was actually making more sense,

 

[Purple]

It's a sad day when you find the guy who tried to blame the famine on a volcano was actually making more sense,

The people who exported food during the Famine were Irish. We do have a tendency to ignore the fact that while they may have been British as well they were also Irish born. The biggest crime those who starved committed was that they were poor. Poor people didn't matter.

 

[Leo]

Poor people didn't matter.

Indeed, same reason the great fire of London only recorded 6 deaths.

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

We had a legal system before they got here and they didn't speak english at that time anyway due to the evolution of their own language and the fact that their leaders spoke the language of their conquerors; French. My daughter is learning Spanish in school. I don't see an invasion by Spain as an essential part of that particular curriculum.

The Russians defeated the Nazis and the Americans stopped the Russians roiling across Europe. The British did help but they were bit players.

Why were we having a Civil War in the first place?

I don't think the IRA would have overthrown the State since even by the mid 70's they had lost any sort of popular support here due to the fact that they were murdering scum.

I do like the BBC but we'd get that anyway.

Ah Purple, except for the Beeb the only one of my points to escape your withering dismissal was parliamentary democracy. It was the one I was least sure of

 

[Purple]

Ah Purple, except for the Beeb the only one of my points to escape your withering dismissal was parliamentary democracy. It was the one I was least sure of

Oliver Cromwell; the man who gave us Parliamentary democracy and religious political fundamentalism all in one go. Complex chap, wouldn't have made it as a stand-up comic and not full of Christmas cheer.
The Roman Senate was probably similar enough to what passed for the Commons of that time and, as far as I remember, predates the shenanigans of Charlie and Oliver.

 

[Purple]

Indeed, same reason the great fire of London only recorded 6 deaths.

The guy who compiled that list must have been Irish.

 

[Royanne]

Feel better now?
Were you making an actual point there?

The British have given the world a lot; one of the biggest empired the world had seen and therefore one of most comprehensive mass oppressions ever as all empires are built on blood, murder and suffering. They also gave the world the concentration camp, deliberate germ warfare, a good few genocides, mass religious oppression and so much more.
This country has many dark chapters in our history and many bad points now. Some of the Brits glorify their savagery, their murder, their oppression and try to Brexit their way back to those days of glory.

The South Irish were in the U.K. then and if there was oppression, mass murder and religious oppression the Irish have a case to answer. Two wrongs dont make a right, but what did the Belgians do in the Congo, the French in Algeria, the Spanish and their inquistion and treatment of Jews and Protestants? See 1641, in Ireland and the massacres of Protestants. The IRA campaign in Co Down where massacre in a small town of Protestants influenced by a later Irish govt minister?

The point to be made is that selective use of facts and confirmation coupled with the Irish talent for self deception and 'what aboutery' is well known. I suggest the Irish are a violent, intolerant, bigoted people who are too dishonest to look at their own history and find blaming the British much more convenient.

 

[Purple]

The South Irish were in the U.K. then and if there was oppression, mass murder and religious oppression the Irish have a case to answer. Two wrongs dont make a right but what did the Belgians do in the Congo, the French in Algeria, the Spanish and their inquistion and treatment of Jews and Protestants.

I agree. The point I'm making is that we don't glory in it and look wistfully back to the days when we could take the kings shilling and go cracking the darkie's heads in the colonies. The History of the UK is long, bloody and shameful, interposed with a few good points. When we were a British colony we shared that history. It's nothing to be proud of.

See 1641, in Ireland and the massacres of Protestants. The IRA campaign in Co Down where massacre of a small town of Protestants took place led by a later Irish govt minister.

A whole town wiped out by the IRA, lead by a man who later became a government minister? Can you share more information on that please?

The point to be made is that selective use of facts and confirmation coupled with the Irish talent for self deception and 'what aboutery' is well known. I suggest the Irish are a violent, intolerant, bigoted people who are too dishonest to look at their own history

We share those traits with everyone else on Earth.

 

[WolfeTone]

The only time it was united was in the U.K

The UK established in 1801. I think you will find that Ireland, as a singular and united political entity, existed a long time before that.

coupled with an inferior culture left the U.K.

Inferior cultures tend to exude resistance to other cultures, ultimately dissipating and become relics of their society.

Ireland has been many times, and for far too long, on the bended knee to Britain. She has never submitted.
The pursuit of the re-unification of Ireland, and all her people, is as pivotal in 2019 as it ever was. It is a constitutional imperative for every elected Irish government.
Far from inferior culture, it is manifestly a culture that has successfully expanded and embedded itself amongst all cultures and it is globally recognized as such.

With the obvious exception within pockets of the north east of the island.
That might have something to do with resistance to other cultures.

 

[Royanne]

I don't think colony is the right word. We were in the U.K. and not a colony. Elected representative sat in the House of Commons and representatives sat in the House of Lords. Wales is not a colony or N.I.or indeed Scotland. Ireland benefitted financially and considering the threats from foreign powers (France, Germany) Ireland was in a stronger position. N.I. receives over 9.2 Billion in funds yearly and the culture of a great nation. The commonwealth of which Canada, Aust. NZ etc are members don't have the bigotted attitute of the Irish. The British legacy and culture is respected with the exception of Oirish Nationalists.

The contributions His Grace, The Duke of Marmalade speaks of in his comments above is self evident and many positive aspects continue throughout these countries today. Countries of which many of the Irish flock to make a living as there own country has mostly been an economic failure and has been a society where skilled writers / intellectuals left willingly.

Canada and Aust have addressed issues over native land rights, educational schools etc etc.
The Irish simply ignore and misrepresent.
The bigotted Irish don't even wear poppies and ignore that 60K Irish who fought in WW1 and a considerable number in WW2.
German and British armed forces have taken part in remembrance occassions.

The atrocity in Co Down can easily be easily researched but you won't find them in Irish history books. Self deception rules! The South Irish are deplorable.

 

[Royanne]

The UK established in 1801. I think you will find that Ireland, as a singular and united political entity, existed a long time before that.



Inferior cultures tend to exude resistance to other cultures, ultimately dissipating and become relics of their society.

Ireland has been many times, and for far too long, on the bended knee to Britain. She has never submitted.
The pursuit of the re-unification of Ireland, and all her people, is as pivotal in 2019 as it ever was. It is a constitutional imperative for every elected Irish government.
Far from inferior culture, it is manifestly a culture that has successfully expanded and embedded itself amongst all cultures and it is globally recognized as such.

With the obvious exception within pockets of the north east of the island.
That might have something to do with resistance to other cultures.

Bended knee?

Strange the Oirish would flood into the U.K. then. Let's hope with Brexit the Irish can be stopped going there and they can return to their Eire paradise? Too many Irish must loathe the place as they don't seem to want to live there.

Ireland is seen as' Britain light' world wide, now a supported by U.S. multinational on a tax holiday much to the annoyance of the E.U.who would like to see the Irish play fair.

Thankfully the IMF can bail out Ireland every few years and Britain can give them loans again.
Ireland was never one, and the Ireland has a parliament like a county council with its comical members .The Irish appear obsessed with a big Ireland. The would rather fight that f---k. Good oul fightin' Oirish.

A diddly die culture, low ideals, a kiddy fiddler friendly religion and a dead lingo. A violent bigotted, incompetently run country
A terrorist haven ever there was one. How dare they say the Northern Irish are Irish. What an insult from the Oirish.

 

[Purple]

I don't think colony is the right word. We were in the U.K. and not a colony. Elected representative sat in the House of Commons and representatives sat in the House of Lords. Wales is not a colony or N.I.or indeed Scotland.

Wales and Scotland didn't have a Viceroy.

Ireland benefitted financially and considering the threats from foreign powers (France, Germany) Ireland was in a stronger position.

The greatest threat from a foreign power Ireland ever faced was from Britain.

N.I. receives over 9.2 Billion in funds yearly and the culture of a great nation.

They get that money because Britain has, in the words of our esteemed former Taoiseach who did the country some service, created a "failed economic entity" in Northern Ireland. I agree that they do have the culture of a great Nation but it has been diluted and polluted by the British influence.

The commonwealth of which Canada, Aust. NZ etc are members don't have the bigotted attitute of the Irish. The British legacy and culture is respected with the exception of Oirish Nationalists.

I'm not a nationalist so I can't really comment on that other than to say that I have a great deal of respect for English and Scottish culture (is there such thing as British culture?). I've no time for craven west-Brit, little-englanders, nationalists of any hue, bigoted tribalists who dress their racism up in the cloak of patriotism or those who think that "glory" and "national pride" excuse the crimes of the past or present.

The contributions His Grace, The Duke of Marmalade speaks of in his comments above is self evident and many positive aspects continue throughout these countries today. Countries of which many of the Irish flock to make a living as there own country has mostly been an economic failure and has been a society where skilled writers / intellectuals left willingly.

We cast off the cancer of our colonial masters only to have it replaced by priests and bishops. We cast that cancer off in the 1990's and since then have become one of the richest, freest, happiest and liberal countries in the world. We have our share of bigots but for the most part we are an open and accepting people. We have many shameful things in our past, both recent and not so recent but most Irish people acknowledge that.
I don't want a united Ireland until the people there rid themselves of their tribalism, bigotry, homophobia and racism. I feel more at home in London than I do in Belfast.

Canada and Aust have addressed issues over native land rights, educational schools etc etc.
The Irish simply ignore and misrepresent.

You'll have to explain what you are talking about there. Is that a dig at the DUP about the Irish Language Act?

The bigotted Irish don't even wear poppies and ignore that 60K Irish who fought in WW1 and a considerable number in WW2.

The Ulster Unionists do wear poppies, and they are Irish, so you are factually incorrect.
They are not worn by most people here because they commemorate all British war dead, not just those who died in the two World Wars. Why would we commemorate the people who oppressed and murdered us?

The atrocity in Co Down can easily be easily researched but you won't find them in Irish history books. Self deception rules! The South Irish are deplorable.

Can you offer a source to substantiate your claim that a government minister was responsible for the murder of an entire town in Northern Ireland. Otherwise withdraw it.

 

[WolfeTone]

Strange the Oirish would flood into the U.K.

Not really. Ireland was an economic backwater after independence. Britain provided a crutch for many of its people. The linkage between the Irish and British is inseparable.

Ireland is seen as' Britain light' world wide, now a supported by U.S. multinational on a tax holiday much to the annoyance of the E.U.who would like to see the Irish play fair.

True in many respects. Its not unusual to hear foreigners refer to the island of Britain as England. Reducing Scotland and Wales as bit players.

and Britain can give them loans again.

The same loans used to bail out British banks? Sure.

Ireland was never one,

Well in 1801, the Acts of Union, which abolished the Irish parliament, and established the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland, would emphatically suggest otherwise.
Perhaps you are comparing political entities with cultural and religious origins?

A diddly die culture, low ideals, a kiddy fiddler friendly religion and a dead lingo. A violent bigotted, incompetently run country
A terrorist haven ever there was one.

Did I touch a nerve with my previous post?

How dare they say the Northern Irish are Irish.

God forbid! Next they will saying that Southern Irish originated from Africa.