Returning cans and plastic bottles

[dem_syhp]

Okay, I'll take your word for it, but I'm honestly surprised.

The bins in the office thing, yes, I get, albeit a little bit of effort would get people into better habits - don't put the various bins beside each other, but a few very clear signs above them etc.

My last work place, in the work canteen there was endless education / signs up. The 3 bins, landfill/compost/recycling were along side each other, all different colours, with pictures on them as to what could go in to each, but compliance was terrible.

In my small office, of 7-8 people, there was a shredding bin, confidential paper would would go in to be shredded and recycled and I'd watch people put rubbish in it, despite a rubbish bin being beside it. Everyone working in the office was educated to degree/masters+ level.

I would bring home my recycling as I knew the bins were so contaminated none would get recycled.

 

[Cervelo]

My last work place, in the work canteen there was endless education / signs up. The 3 bins, landfill/compost/recycling were along side each other, all different colours, with pictures on them as to what could go in to each, but compliance was terrible.

In my small office, of 7-8 people, there was a shredding bin, confidential paper would would go in to be shredded and recycled and I'd watch people put rubbish in it, despite a rubbish bin being beside it. Everyone working in the office was educated to degree/masters+ level.

I would bring home my recycling as I knew the bins were so contaminated none would get recycled.

This is it in a nutshell, there are a lot of people who talk the talk but don't walk the walk

Every bit of packaging we get from the supermarket is washed and dried before been put in a recycling bin
but a lot of the time when I observe others, its dirty packaging that gets put in the bin
Even the other day while walking by the return machine in Lidl there was a smell of beer coming from the machine

 

[T McGibney]

Every bit of packaging we get from the supermarket is washed and dried before been put in a recycling bin

The resource cost of doing this must be cumulatively enormous.

 

[dem_syhp]

The resource cost of doing this must be cumulatively enormous.

At a personal level, it doesn't take any additional resources - I can't comment for others. We don't wash every bit of packaging, but any packaging that's dirty. When we're finished washing the dishes, we rinse them and let them drip dry. Even when I did have a dish washer, I always had somethings that needed to be washed by hand, they got rinsed with that left over water.

 

[Cervelo]

The resource cost of doing this must be cumulatively enormous.

Why??
Even though we have a dishwasher every evening there is a small washup to be done, pots, pans and fine china
only takes a minute or two extra and as dem_syhp says let them drip dry and put in the recycling bin next day

 

[mathepac]

What alternative do you propose given the previous system of hoping people would put them in a recycling bin was failing?

The only realistic alternative is to stop the production and use of plastics. Only a tiny percentage of plastics designated as "recyclable" can be recycled. Once the plastic is combined with dyes, branding labels, adhesives, etc. it becomes technically and economically impossible to recycle. Plastics destined for certain uses, eg. food packaging can only be recycled once.

 

[T McGibney]

Why??
Even though we have a dishwasher every evening there is a small washup to be done, pots, pans and fine china
only takes a minute or two extra and as dem_syhp says let them drip dry and put in the recycling bin next day

You mentioned beer cans. It takes a lot of water to wash through a beer can before it no longer smells of beer. Ditto milk cartons. Other items such as ketchup and mayonnaise containers can be stubbornly hard to clean as you describe. And some items such as butter containers are so difficult to clean that recycling centres will treat them as waste no matter how clean they are.

 

[MrEarl]

The only realistic alternative is to stop the production and use of plastics. Only a tiny percentage of plastics designated as "recyclable" can be recycled. Once the plastic is combined with dyes, branding labels, adhesives, etc. it becomes technically and economically impossible to recycle. Plastics destined for certain uses, eg. food packaging can only be recycled once.

Hello,

I think that's really the approach that we should be taking - albeit, I know that it cant always be replaced with a suitable alternative.

I gave an example of getting rid of all plastic bottles for water, above. While it's just one example of what we might do, it could be done quickly, if the desire was there, and there's a suitable alternative available.

I notice take away food is being delivery more regularly in plastic containers, where once your Chinese delivery was in a metal container, with cardboard lid, for example. I don't know why this change has occurred, but I'd have thought that it's a step in the wrong direction?

So, if I can see possibilities like this, and I don't have a relevant background, then why are the Government (incl the Green Party) not coming up with them, along with many more?

 

[T McGibney]

Hello,

I think that's really the approach that we should be taking - albeit, I know that it cant always be replaced with a suitable alternative.

If you reduce food packaging, you decrease its shelf life and increase food waste. Bananas an obvious case in point.

I notice take away food is being delivery more regularly in plastic containers, where once your Chinese delivery was in a metal container, with cardboard lid, for example. I don't know why this change has occurred, but I'd have thought that it's a step in the wrong direction?

The rising cost of scarce aluminium?

 

[Leo]

So, if I can see possibilities like this, and I don't have a relevant background, then why are the Government (incl the Green Party) not coming up with them, along with many more?

Perhaps because it's not as clear cut as you might think, and those making decisions taking a broader view.

 

[Cervelo]

You mentioned beer cans. It takes a lot of water to wash through a beer can before it no longer smells of beer. Ditto milk cartons. Other items such as ketchup and mayonnaise containers can be stubbornly hard to clean as you describe. And some items such as butter containers are so difficult to clean that recycling centres will treat them as waste no matter how clean they are.

Not to criticize yours or anybody else's washing up but I've never had any problem cleaning any of the items you've listed above
Maybe having spent all my life working in food processing I just know how to clean properly

 

[Fortune]

Why??
Even though we have a dishwasher every evening there is a small washup to be done, pots, pans and fine china
only takes a minute or two extra and as dem_syhp says let them drip dry and put in the recycling bin next day

I do the same, but there's only two or three items a day. I suspect a lot of people generate a lot of waste, both recyclable and non recyclable, so it seems like a massive effort to those people.

 

[Fortune]

Hello,

I think that's really the approach that we should be taking - albeit, I know that it cant always be replaced with a suitable alternative.

I gave an example of getting rid of all plastic bottles for water, above. While it's just one example of what we might do, it could be done quickly, if the desire was there, and there's a suitable alternative available.

I notice take away food is being delivery more regularly in plastic containers, where once your Chinese delivery was in a metal container, with cardboard lid, for example. I don't know why this change has occurred, but I'd have thought that it's a step in the wrong direction?

So, if I can see possibilities like this, and I don't have a relevant background, then why are the Government (incl the Green Party) not coming up with them, along with many more

I only ever see paper and compostable cardboard from takeaways.

 

[Clamball]

I agree my draining board is normally stacked with food containers that I have rinsed, washed and am drip drying. I don’t wash out cans of beer or Coke but do drain them to dry. Washing out milk bottles takes water and more than one rinse to run clear, and I think the cost of the water is worth more than a clean milk carton. I often fail to get remnants of mayo or sauce from those squeezy bottles. Endless soaking, maybe I need a bottle brush? I certainly do not wash bits of plastic film covering food trays, so I do a bit but I do not clean all plastics.

 

[Leo]

Thin

I only ever see paper and compostable cardboard from takeaways.

Think curries and the like, mostly served in plastic containers now.

 

[Leo]

I often fail to get remnants of mayo or sauce from those squeezy bottles.

Pop the lid off and put them in the dishwasher.

 

[DublinTexas]

I always recycled the full way into my own bins, I even removed the cardboard from containers if it told me to.

And since the introduction of the recycling machines, I often use a casual walk to bring down a few items to the local machine rather than taking the car once a month/week to the bigger machines.

However, since someone here encouraged me to do my homework why recycling is the answer, I have become more and more convinced, this is dubious scheme because it creates a false sense of environmental responsibility while failing to address the core issue of plastic pollution.

Despite widespread consumer participation (even forced by introducing financial penalties to those who do not participate), only a small percentage of plastic waste is actually recycled, with the rest ending up in landfills, incinerators, or the environment. According to the EPA for the last available reporting period 70% of plastic got burned. And even if there are no numbers for the plastic/cans etc in scope for the return scheme, it can't be too far off either.

And after reading the Center for Climate Integrity Report "The Fraud of Plastic Recycling" it's clear that the inefficiency of "real recycling" is due to the complex nature of plastic types, contamination issues, and economic factors that make recycling nonviable. I am also under the impression that the recycling industry is often subsidized by plastic manufacturers as a way to shift the burden of waste management onto consumers, allowing them to continue producing new plastic unabated.

The only way I can see me going forward is to choose alternatives even more than I did in the past, select products made from sustainable materials like glass, metal, or biodegradable substances over plastic ones.

And looking at the IWMA it's clear that this machine deposit approach can't be viable long run, especially if there is a significant return level, so prices will go up for goods or the scheme will have to be bailed out by the taxpayer, so why introduce something that is so wasteful in cost plus so resource intensive (after all those machines use significant electricity require maintenance and other issues).

The IWMA suggestion of codes into my own bin would have been a good alternative as it would add minimal additional cost and won't create additional impact by car rides to the return machine.

It's clear that me doing my part is not even addressing the issue as I had hoped and in reality, it's just another cost and labor intensive overlayer on collection to burn (and then sell me back as heat/electricity) .

 

[Fortune]

Thin

Think curries and the like, mostly served in plastic containers now.

My curries come in cardboard

 

[mathepac]

However, since someone here encouraged me to do my homework why recycling is the answer, I have become more and more convinced, this is dubious scheme because it creates a false sense of environmental responsibility while failing to address the core issue of plastic pollution.

Despite widespread consumer participation (even forced by introducing financial penalties to those who do not participate), only a small percentage of plastic waste is actually recycled, with the rest ending up in landfills, incinerators, or the environment.

Agreed, though I see landfills, incinerators, and the environment as the same thing.

And after reading the Center for Climate Integrity Report "The Fraud of Plastic Recycling" it's clear that the inefficiency of "real recycling" is due to the complex nature of plastic types, contamination issues, and economic factors that make recycling nonviable. I am also under the impression that the recycling industry is often subsidized by plastic manufacturers as a way to shift the burden of waste management onto consumers, allowing them to continue producing new plastic unabated.

Agreed. For plastic manufacturers, substitute the oil/petrochemical industry. Blame the consumer, "you've failed to meet your targets again! Look at the state of the planet!"

 

[JoeRoberts]

If we incinerated all waste and used that energy to generate electricity we would probably be better off environmentally when all elements, costs and resources of "recycling" are considered.