Returning cans and plastic bottles

dem_syhp said:
I thought it was because its a different type of plastic, not PET but HDPE. But I don't really know - I'd thought I'd read something but can't find it now. But this applies to milk, I'd guess that some of the juice/coffee drinks are PET.

Interesting letter from IWMA arguing for an automated solution by in 2021, and not the manual solution that was rolled out (I only read some of this and have no knowledge of either system). Many of the annoyances/concerns in this thread were raised in this :
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That is a very interesting document, I wonder who will pay for the shortfall of €25m to €60m that they claim the system that was implemented will have.

I mean we all know it's either going to be every taxpayer or the consumer because of price hikes even across other products that are not part of the scheme because retailers have to make up for the cost of the scheme in their shops.

This whole system is a joke, it's costly, does not really bring any benefit and it's a time-consuming burden on the consumer. My nearest shop in walking distance has 2 machines, one is constantly broken and most people bring loads of bags, so it's queuing for a while before you get your turn and that it takes time to get all bottles/can in the machine one by one (instead for example multi bottle machines on the continent).

So, if I want to bring the bottles/cans to a shop that has more machines, I must drive to it, generating more bad news for the environment.

This is just another one of these crazy schemes like now having the bottle caps attached to the bottle so that it's ensured it gets also "recycled".

I wonder how much of what we return is actually really recycled and not "converted to energy" ! Plus, even if it's really recycled, how much energy is used to recycle it?
 
Leo said:
What alternative do you propose given the previous system of hoping people would put them in a recycling bin was failing?
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Can you enlighten me how many of those caps will actually be really converted back into other usable items (and at what cost) and not just end up in energy or landfills or some dump in a 3rd world country?

Does the cost of changing manufacturing to make sure it's as hard as possible to remove the cap from the bottle not lead to price increases/shrink flation?
 
Itchy said:
If you don't want your cap attached just pull it off. What's the issue?
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And when too many bottles are coming back who had the caps forcefully removed, they will just stop accepting those to give you your money back.
 
DublinTexas said:
Can you enlighten me how many of those caps will actually be really converted back into other usable items (and at what cost) and not just end up in energy or landfills or some dump in a 3rd world country?
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I don't think I have the time or patience to educate you on the fundamentals of plastics recycling.
 
Leo said:
A long way off target, getting worse, and leading us towards heavy fines? That's not definition of success.
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Scotland was apparently in the same dire straits when the SNP/Green coalition proposed their own version of this scheme but the problem seemed to go away as soon as they were forced to abandon it.

Any Irish person who objects to this scam scheme should seriously consider

1. refusing to use the deposit machines - the scheme will die if retailers lose money on the machines.
2. refusing to buy deposit-carrying products wherever possible.
3. disposing of deposit-carrying containers in their black bin.
 
Leo said:
A long way off target, getting worse, and leading us towards heavy fines? That's not definition of success.
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I haven't seen any solid stats for the items specifically in scope of Re-turn. I've seen vague general stats for 'plastics' which covers a multitude of items, not just plastic bottles in scope of the scheme.
 
Leo said:
I don't think I have the time or patience to educate you on the fundamentals of plastics recycling.
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That is the spirit to convince me that the majority of plastic is not burned and really recycled!

For my personal use case this whole forced recycle approach is generating more negative impact to the environment (unneeded travel) and cost (thanks to the rise in bin charges) than putting the items in the appropriate bin in front of my place.
 
Leo said:
A long way off target, getting worse, and leading us towards heavy fines? That's not definition of success.
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In broad terms yes, I get that, but specifically with regards to cans and plastic bottles, I don't see where you are getting your info from, and honestly don't think it was an issue - I rarely saw a plastic bottle or can on the ground,on recent years.

I think my point above about bringing an end to the use of plastic bottles for water, would get a far greater result, as you'd stop the problem at source, so have 100% success, without the negatives that this scheme has brought.

We're so far off our 2030 targets, that the likes of a few cycle lanes, introduction of recycle machines to replace the use of green bins (for cans and plastic bottles), are really insignificant. What we really need to be doing, is building a dozen light rail lines, for electric trams to service our cities, and replace a lot of private motor journeys etc.
 
DublinTexas said:
And while it's specific to the USA it's eye opening!
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thanks, very informative. I've known about the triangle of arrows chasing each other around a numeral for some years but was amazed to learn that consumers still look for the symbol on containers & products, thinking it indicates recycleability. Great deception Oil/Plastics industry.
 
MrEarl said:
I rarely saw a plastic bottle or can on the ground,on recent years.
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There may be fewer on the ground but a lot are going into landfill, which is an environmental disaster.

Part of the rationale for the deposit scheme is to divert people who wouldn't litter but also wouldn't recycle, i.e. would use the general waste bin for everything.

I see it at work where there are general/recycling/compost bins side by side and so many people just fire things into the nearest one. These folk are the reason that we have the new system.
 
arbitron said:
There may be fewer on the ground but a lot are going into landfill, which is an environmental disaster.
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Okay, I'll take your word for it, but I'm honestly surprised.

The bins in the office thing, yes, I get, albeit a little bit of effort would get people into better habits - don't put the various bins beside each other, but a few very clear signs above them etc.
 
DublinTexas said:
That is the spirit to convince me that the majority of plastic is not burned and really recycled!
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Not my role to educate you, the information is all out there and freely available if you put some time in to read about it. I note you didn't suggest what alternative approach would better enable us even get close to meeting the targets we're committed to.
 
MrEarl said:
In broad terms yes, I get that, but specifically with regards to cans and plastic bottles, I don't see where you are getting your info from, and honestly don't think it was an issue - I rarely saw a plastic bottle or can on the ground,on recent years.
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The bus stop and hedgerow by my local shop is still lettered with them.

MrEarl said:
We're so far off our 2030 targets, that the likes of a few cycle lanes, introduction of recycle machines to replace the use of green bins (for cans and plastic bottles), are really insignificant.
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I presume you're talking carbon targets there, it's the plastics recycling targets I was referring to. A new cycle lane does nothing to address falling plastics recycling.
 
MrEarl said:
The bins in the office thing, yes, I get, albeit a little bit of effort would get people into better habits - don't put the various bins beside each other, but a few very clear signs above them etc.
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I know the primary schools try every now and then and have been for some years at this stage, but when you see the level of contamination in the bins in town that are all colour coded with pictures of what should and should not go into them, you have to wonder.

I don't like this scheme, I was recycling as much as I could anyway, but we were way off target and getting worse so now we all pay the price for the lazy.
 
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