Current public sentiment towards the housing market?

[tiger]

Time out!!!

Guys, stop disecting each other threads and speculating as to peoples motives for posting, it's less interesting for the rest of us.

I've been following this thread for a while, some opinions I agree with, others not. Some peoples logic/analysis is sound, others is flawed, but it's all good sentiment!!!

 

[ninsaga]

Investigative journalists and researchers do that kind of thing all the time. Its neither childish nor unethical, its honest to god front line research, and I say fair play to Miju for doing it.

..... he offered a lower asking price with NO intention of buying. This is unethical. I'm glad that you have compared it to the work that some journalists do......far from ethical indeed.

I have seen lists of excellent reasons for bearish sentiments, all of them factual....

I think that the points made earlier is that they are not all factual.....

ninsaga

 

[tententwenty]

..... he offered a lower asking price with NO intention of buying. This is unethical. I'm glad that you have compared it to the work that some journalists do......far from ethical indeed.

So one email asking about prices is going to devalue that entire property? The housing market must be on shakier ground than I thought... The bottom line is, if you want the facts, you are going to have to ask someone. He did.

I think that the points made earlier is that they are not all factual.....

You're going to have to go into details for me there.

 

[liteweight]

So he said it first, that makes it okay? We'll have to take your word for it that you aren't exposed on the property market...

I never said it made it ok...was simply pointing out to you that you were 'picking and choosing' which posts to object to! And yes you do have to take my word for it that I'm not over invested just as I have to take your word for certain things.

Investigative journalists and researchers do that kind of thing all the time. Its neither childish nor unethical, its honest to god front line research, and I say fair play to Miju for doing it.

Any investigate journalist worth his salt would not do as Miju did.

So your definition of "ethics" involves censoring the hundreds of people posting valid opinions and viewpoints on this thread? This is a discussion site about financial affairs, which makes this discussion bang in AAM's remit. Getting more traffic to that end is entirely their priority. If you don't like that, feel free to start your own discussion site.

I have never suggested censoring anyone, nor would I!! I do however, get a bit sick of people who can't justify their remarks, throwing their toys out of the pram....if you don't like etc.

If thats the case then you haven't read much of the thread, nor even that post from Ninsaga which I all but directly quoted. I have seen lists of excellent reasons for bearish sentiments, all of them factual, throughout this and other threads. I have neither the time nor the inclination to repeat them yet again for you.

I beg to differ . You actually quoted a line from ninsaga's post, if that was all he/she posted then so be it.

 

[ninsaga]

So one email asking about prices is going to devalue that entire property? The housing market must be on shakier ground than I thought... The bottom line is, if you want the facts, you are going to have to ask someone. He did.

Lets look at what Miju did agaon...

i emailed and while it's not fair to go into figures and the ins and outs of the reply suffice to say i made a very low offer and the reply has confirmed my belief the market is currently undergoing a massive shift and largely towards negative sentiment

..so...
- he made an offer below asking with no intent of buying
- offer was accepted therefore the bottom is falling out of the market
...oh please
anyways...... I believe it unethical & totally un professional to screw around with a seller like that.... maybe its just that we have different sets of standards

You're going to have to go into details for me there.

The daft stats of course

ninsaga

 

[tententwenty]

I never said it made it ok...was simply pointing out to you that you were 'picking and choosing' which posts to object to! And yes you do have to take my word for it that I'm not over invested just as I have to take your word for certain things.

Oh, I'm not asking for you to take my word on anything.

Any investigate journalist worth his salt would not do as Miju did.

Well thats your opinion. The information gathered by Miju was in the public arena, not any kind of secret.

I have never suggested censoring anyone, nor would I!!

Locking the thread sounds like censorship to me.

I beg to differ . You actually quoted a line from ninsaga's post, if that was all he/she posted then so be it.

This doesn't even make sense. Okay so, cards on the table, what interest if any have you in the Irish property market, do you own any properties, and are any of them investment properties?

 

[tententwenty]

..so...
- he made an offer below asking with no intent of buying
- offer was accepted therefore the bottom is falling out of the market
...oh please
anyways...... I believe it unethical & totally un professional to screw around with a seller like that.... maybe its just that we have different sets of standards

I note he never said the offer was accepted however, just implied that it was. And in any case, as I said, the information was and is in the public domain. When you want to find out something in the public domain, you call and ask. The conclusions drawn from it might have been erroneous or what have you, but I see no problem in finding out. the big problem in Ireland today is people NOT calling, NOT finding out, and stumbling blindly into what amounts to a lifetime financial commitment that might bankrupt them.

We need more Mijus...

The daft stats of course

Can't argue with you there... As I said before, the only stats I am likely to trust are the Revenue Commissioners.

 

[ninsaga]

I note he never said the offer was accepted however, just implied that it was. And in any case, as I said, the information was and is in the public domain. When you want to find out something in the public domain, you call and ask. .

You are missing the point here ..... the point is he is leading on someone here with out the slightest intent of carrying through..... he is falsely playing with with someone there - unfair, unethical, unprofessional.... what is to say that this seller does not have personal difficulties & needs to sell anyway.

In relation to comparing that to the work of an investative journalist...well its not as though he is trying to lure a drug dealer into an offer. Good investigative journalists don't prey on the public like that. Can you now make the differentiation.

ninsaga

 

[tententwenty]

You are missing the point here ..... the point is he is leading on someone here with out the slightest intent of carrying through..... he is falsely playing with with someone there - unfair, unethical, unprofessional.... what is to say that this seller does not have personal difficulties & needs to sell anyway.

In relation to comparing that to the work of an investative journalist...well its not as though he is trying to lure a drug dealer into an offer. Good investigative journalists don't prey on the public like that. Can you now make the differentiation.

An enquiry was made, and it was responded to. For all we know the seller might have tacked 20% on the probable price and accepted the 10% drop or something. Yeah, and thats about as realistic and has as much point as your painting the seller as a poor old granny that needs a hip replaced. Good investigative journalists get the facts, and the facts are what was got.

 

[miju]

You are missing the point here ..... the point is he is leading on someone here with out the slightest intent of carrying through..... he is falsely playing with with someone there - unfair, unethical, unprofessional...

i made an offer , it was countered by a slight increase on my offer and i replied with a thanks but no thanks good luck with your sale email what on earth is unethical about that?

as i said before there's plenty of vendors out there who gazump buyers or pull out at the last second before signing off because of a higher offer ,

leading him on would be stringing him along , going to viewings implying i would buy then not sending 1 email is an enquiry BIG DIFFERENCE , i didn't undermine the property in any way because i haven't put the figures up on this thread (and i wont either) and again i didn't claim the bottom was falling out of the market i merely said that the response i got was very indicitive that sentiment is changing i mean last year the offer i made would have been laughed at

 

[Guest107]

We are all observing the market at this time and any change is worth noting.

Elegantly put Jeanne

I noted that this weeks Galway Advertiser (main Galway outlet) is chocka with Doughiska properties for the first time ever. I have my beady eye on this area as it is particularly bloated with post 911 specuvesting .

The pattern may be viewed on their website , all the EAs seem to have Ballybrit Heights and/or Túr Uisce type property to offload.

Keep an eye on the PDF edition

[broken link removed]

I am now calling Galway City. The specuvestors have started to dump.

 

[Jeanne]

You are missing the point here ..... the point is he is leading on someone here with out the slightest intent of carrying through..... he is falsely playing with with someone there - unfair, unethical, unprofessional.... what is to say that this seller does not have personal difficulties & needs to sell anyway.

He made an offer that was accepted. Get real! I know plenty of people who love nothing more than to view property and, out of curiosity often bid lower than asking price (to test the water) usually expecting to be refused. But occasionally it happens that, unexpectedly, the offer is accepted. It happens all the time. If the EA isn't intersted in your offer, they are so 'professional and fair' they'll get back to you straight away and tell you to....well, of course they'll be ever so polite! And they would never play you off against another bidder. No. Never!

If someone was to engage in a long bidding war, leading everyone (vendor, other bidders) to believe they were serious about purchasing when they had no inention, that would unfair.

Anyway, there's a house just up for sale near me (Youngs). I'm off to have a look at the details.

Loving his thread...

 

[whathome]

You are missing the point here ..... the point is he is leading on someone here with out the slightest intent of carrying through..... he is falsely playing with with someone there - unfair, unethical, unprofessional.... what is to say that this seller does not have personal difficulties & needs to sell anyway.

In relation to comparing that to the work of an investative journalist...well its not as though he is trying to lure a drug dealer into an offer. Good investigative journalists don't prey on the public like that. Can you now make the differentiation.

ninsaga

Just had a quick look over the thread over the past few days - too much petty meandering IMO. Edit - but I hope the moderators don't close it, the odd gem makes it very informative!

There is no ethical problem with Miju's call. We're buying a house at the moment, I call agents all the time asking if they think a vendor might be interested in an offer around a certain price. The response usually gives me an idea of how much movement there is in on asking price. Sometimes I do it to just see how soft an area is on price. Doesn't mean I'm reneging on anything. He made a call, got a response - no big no deal Did he visit the development? Did he make a formal offer? Did he sign any contracts? No vendor would take a quick enquiry call to an agent seriously but the agents' response gives a good idea of the amount of interest in the property.

The market weakened further this week - an agent in Swords told me that they have twice the number of properties for sale this year compared to last. She said that in the last two weeks they had more cancellations than sales!

 

[Guest107]

..so...
- he made an offer below asking with no intent of buying
- offer was accepted therefore the bottom is falling out of the market
...oh please
anyways...... I believe it unethical & totally un professional to screw around with a seller like that.... maybe its just that we have different sets of standards

Actually that was MY IDEA based on a discussion about a particular area which is being staged onto the market but Miju did it.

Miju did not post the details having confirmed his hunch and I did not ask for them (although you could PM them to me if you wish under NDA conditions Miju ) . I see no reason to post them either at this time . They may come up again when the place has been sold .

You may attack me for suggesting the idea if you will Ninsaga , leave Miju out of it please.

Oh! and Letterkenny now has 1000 properties for sale .

 

[ninsaga]

Jeez..lookat all the fun I missed whilst having a cuppa tea

An enquiry was made, and it was responded to..

NO - an offer was made ...lets stick to the facts please....(see folloowing quote)

i made an offer , it was countered by a slight increase on my offer and i replied with a thanks but no thanks....

OK then why did you not state that to begin with...you post implied that as a result of offering lower then the bottom is falling out of the market

Actually that was MY IDEA based on a discussion about a particular area which is being staged onto the market but Miju did it.
.....
You may attack me for suggesting the idea if you will Ninsaga , leave Miju out of it please.

My my, how noble of you...although I'm sure miju is big enough to think & act for him/herself

ninsaga

 

[miju]

J
OK then why did you not state that to begin with...you post implied that as a result of offering lower then the bottom is falling out of the market

i did state that as i knew someone would get on my case saying i'm trying to string along seller and again i didnt state the bottom was falling out of the market (thats what you may have read) what i said was there seems to be a massive shift happening in sentiment

 

[miju]

As part of the assessment of the strength of financial institutions, it looked at the impact of what it called a "range of large but plausible hypothetical shocks". One of the "plausible" shocks examined in the report was a 40% decline in house prices, which takes effect from the beginning of Q3 2006.

40% of the market for buying property is very plausible given that just over 40% of the market last year is made up of investors

 

[tententwenty]

Jeez..lookat all the fun I missed whilst having a cuppa tea

I'd take the ethics of someone making an inquiry over the ethics of someone trying to get a very popular thread locked on flimsy pretexts because it doesn't suit his personal financial situation any day.

You are rapidly encroaching on troll territory here Ninsaga.

 

[Maine]

We are not Italy and will be allowed to run a 6-8% deficit for 3-4 years which is all thats required as the banks take the hit quickly . We will still stop before we hit 60% of GDP unlike the almost bankrupt Italians.

The important thing is to get it over with fast, within 3 years or max 4. Propping it up as it deflates with fiscal sticky plaster is pointless.

Good points 2PACK.

IMO the shakeout will at least cost 100,000 jobs direct and indirect as a result of a few years of 50,000 output - half current. It will take time ( 3 to 4 yrs is min ) to get these people back to other work particularly as the public sector will be closed - govt have over hired past 4 years.

Also IMO all wages in ireland currently have a boom element - this could be 20% plus and this will slowly disappear for all non public sector employees. US multinationals who have lost power over wage reviews will take it back with relish.

Any Irish govt will borrow massively to keep it up as long as possible - I understand the amounts the Japan borrowed in the past 10 years are staggering.

 

[Eurofan]

I've found this thread interesting from the start but is there any chance those involved can just call it quits on the bickering about who said what (or just take it to pm?)

It's really clogging up what is a fascinating thread and will continue to be such as the market develops into Winter.

Please?