The Lisbon vote

Have just received an email from a French customer thanking the people of Ireland for a no vote...
 
It's all over, the final tally from the taoiseach's constituency has come in.
Over 100,000 votes more voted 'No'.
The EU that has had us in good stead for the last 35 years is to remain as is.
Phew!
 
Gautama said:
It's all over, the final tally from the taoiseach's constituency has come in.
Over 100,000 votes more voted 'No'.
The EU that has had us in good stead for the last 35 years is to remain as is.
Phew!
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Good grief are you serious? The existence of the EU was never at question in this referendum nor dependent on it's outcome. :rolleyes:

Better still, the EU hasn't existed for the last 35 years. In 1972 we joined the EEC. The union is a constantly changing dynamic entity, in geographic size, population numbers and constituent populations, political structures etc. What exactly did you think that the change to the Irish constitution we just rejected would result in?
 
Purple said:
They used to have a system like that in the North. It was not popular with some.
Personally I'm a democrat and don't see a link between what people earn and their value as people.
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i agree that there is not a link between what people earn and their value as people. I am also not sure that there is a direct link in Ireland between what people earn and what they pay in tax.

I think that there is a correlation between socio-economic groups and their attitudes to europe with the more financially independent seeing the benefits.
 
Caveat said:
Have just received an email from a French customer thanking the people of Ireland for a no vote...
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And well she may be happy. This now gives the French a clear run to harmonise the CT rate, a real sore point with them. Why do you think that French guy made such a crass intervention into the referendum?
 
This vote is a disgrace. There are plenty of valid reasons for voting yes or no but to think that this failed essentially because of the 'I don't understand so I'll vote no' brigade. If one more person said 'It just hasn't been explained to us properly' to me over the last few days I'd have strangled them. Fair enough if the information was unclear or just not there but you ask the same people have they read the literature, the papers or looked at the website - absolutely not - sure why would they waste their time when they could just be safe and vote no.

As Monty Python would say, what did Europe ever do for us anyway?
 
gearoidmm said:
This vote is a disgrace. There are plenty of valid reasons for voting yes or no but to think that this failed essentially because of the 'I don't understand so I'll vote no' brigade.
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What makes you think it failed on this?
 
gearoidmm said:
This vote is a disgrace. There are plenty of valid reasons for voting yes or no but to think that this failed essentially because of the 'I don't understand so I'll vote no' brigade. If one more person said 'It just hasn't been explained to us properly' to me over the last few days I'd have strangled them. Fair enough if the information was unclear or just not there but you ask the same people have they read the literature, the papers or looked at the website - absolutely not - sure why would they waste their time when they could just be safe and vote no.

As Monty Python would say, what did Europe ever do for us anyway?
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The main parties in the state have spent quite a considerable wad of cash in trying to convince us to vote yes. People are rarely happy to leap into the unknown and that campaign should have been directed at convincing them, instead it was directed at insinuating that only a fool would vote no. Well many people would be happier being a fool who knows where they stand than a fool who doesn't know. Not all media was pro-treaty, there was a considerable drive from the British owned media in particular against the treaty. Not all information was in favour of a yes vote or was comprehensible to all. The yes campaign lost on the demerits of their campaign not on the idiocy of the voters.
 
television said:
What I would be willing to pay and what a guy with two kids earning 40000 a year should pay are very different.
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I asked you what percentage increase you on your hypothetical 40k/year with 2 kids is willing to pay. Can't you answer that question?

starlite68 said:
its offical now,the no vote have it......happy days
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So what are you expecting the EU will do now? Do you believe Gerry Adams that it will be renegotiated?
 
That would involve a second referendum. Sure then they wouldn't be respecting the wishes of the Irish electorate, that's what they did with Nice, they'll keep asking us till they get the right answer, blah, blah, blah. :rolleyes:
 
What made me cringe even more than Grisly Adams' triumphalism was to see on BBC the head of the British Independence Party gushing with delight.
 
shanegl said:
That would involve a second referendum. Sure then they wouldn't be respecting the wishes of the Irish electorate, that's what they did with Nice, they'll keep asking us till they get the right answer, blah, blah, blah. :rolleyes:
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While I do see the Mrs. Doyle in asking the same question, sometimes it is the right thing to do. It depends on why people rejected Lisbon. Did people reject Lisbon because they soberly and dispassionately saw it as not only of no benefit but of actual detriment to us? I sincerly doubt it, I think many voted no due to uncertainty, some due to misinformation, some due to fear, some due to disaffection with the government. In which case should their first no be the only chance they have to answer?
 
so-crates said:
While I do see the Mrs. Doyle in asking the same question, sometimes it is the right thing to do. It depends on why people rejected Lisbon. Did people reject Lisbon because they soberly and dispassionately saw it as not only of no benefit but of actual detriment to us? I sincerly doubt it, I think many voted no due to uncertainty, some due to misinformation, some due to fear, some due to disaffection with the government. In which case should their first no be the only chance they have to answer?
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I've no problem with an amended treaty being put before another vote (that's what Libertas and Sinn Fein were campaigning for by the way. Will we see them campaign for renegotiation now?), but I don't agree with just re-running the vote, and I can't see that happening anyway.
 
cole said:
What makes you think it failed on this?
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The only person that I had a reasoned debate with on the treaty was my 17yr old nephew. He laid out his reasons for opposing it which, although I disagreed with him, I respect his opinion. The majority of people I spoke to over the last few weeks repeated the same misinformation and scaremongering that was being put forward by sections of the no campaign. I know it's anecdotal but I wish they all stayed at home.

That said, I will also accept that many of the yes voters were voting for all the wrong reasons too - more than one person said that the only reason they were voting yes was because Sinn Fein were on the no side.
 
I believe that the arrogance epitomised by Barroso saying that the ratification process would continue gives all the reason you need for rejection. The legalalities say that the ratification of the treaty must be unanimous or the treaty falls. The result of the Irish referendum means that ratification of the treaty cannot be unanimous, so the implication of his statement is that Ireland's vote does not matter.

God bless Ireland!
 
if you hear the yes side now giving their reasons why people voted no. It is pathetic everything from the murdach press to unfounded fears over abortion. Basically there are those in the political estabilshment who do not trust ordinary people. they think ordinary people are Sun reading morons. they just cannot comprehend that people looked at this treaty and came to an informed discision. Which was A big NOOOOOO. And then they wanted ordinary people to swallow the line "trust us we know this is right for you" without effectively telling them why it was right. This sends a clear message to politicans

Dont treat ordinary people like morans.
No to a federal European Superstate
No to privitisation of public services
 
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