The Lisbon vote

so-crates said:
The main parties in the state have spent quite a considerable wad of cash in trying to convince us to vote yes. People are rarely happy to leap into the unknown and that campaign should have been directed at convincing them, instead it was directed at insinuating that only a fool would vote no. Well many people would be happier being a fool who knows where they stand than a fool who doesn't know. Not all media was pro-treaty, there was a considerable drive from the British owned media in particular against the treaty. Not all information was in favour of a yes vote or was comprehensible to all. The yes campaign lost on the demerits of their campaign not on the idiocy of the voters.
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An ecellent point and very well said. But tell that to the majority of pundit/protreaty politicians on the radio/tv to day. They still dont get it.
 
television said:
if you hear the yes side now giving their reasons why people voted no. It is pathetic everything from the murdach press to unfounded fears over abortion. Basically there are those in the political estabilshment who do not trust ordinary people. they think ordinary people are Sun reading morons. they just cannot comprehend that people looked at this treaty and came to an informed discision. Which was A big NOOOOOO. And then they wanted ordinary people to swallow the line "trust us we know this is right for you" without effectively telling them why it was right. This sends a clear message to politicans

Dont treat ordinary people like morans.
No to a federal European Superstate
No to privitisation of public services
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Murdoch
establishment
decision
politicians
morons
Don’t
privatisation

Hardly surprising people voted no on account of not understanding the treaty eh?
 
television said:
An ecellent point and very well said. But tell that to the majority of pundit/protreaty politicians on the radio/tv to day. They still dont get it.
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They have plenty of time to consider it. Stephen Collins, Political Editor in the Irish Times certainly seems to concur that the Government lost the referendum on their campaign. He has a quite detailed article in their Breaking News Section.
 
BillK said:
I believe that the arrogance epitomised by Barroso saying that the ratification process would continue gives all the reason you need for rejection. The legalalities say that the ratification of the treaty must be unanimous or the treaty falls. The result of the Irish referendum means that ratification of the treaty cannot be unanimous, so the implication of his statement is that Ireland's vote does not matter.

God bless Ireland!
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Hmm, or that other European countries have the same rights as we do to consider this treaty? Why should we be the only ones to determine the future direction of Europe?
 
so-crates said:
Hmm, or that other European countries have the same rights as we do to consider this treaty? Why should we be the only ones to determine the future direction of Europe?
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This ground has been covered already.

In order for the Treaty to pass our constitution would have to have been changed.

That can only be done by the people of Ireland not the politicians or any other countries politicians.

And most important it is our constitution not Europes
 
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S.L.F said:
This ground has been covered already.

In order for the Treaty to pass our constitution would have to have been changed.

That can only be done by the people of Ireland not the politicians or any other countries politicians.

And most important it is our constitution not Europes
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That's not the point. We have no right to block the other 26 states from proceeding with the reforms contained in the Lisbon treaty. The other states don't care what we do with our constitution and if it comes to the crunch they couldn't care whether we're in or outside the union. It's not like we've got huge oil revenues that they want to get their hands on. If Ireland wasn't already in the EU, there wouldn't be a problem now. I don't know exactly how it could be done but clearly the idea of Ireland leaving the EU or the other countries forming a new EU without Ireland has to be a real option now. I think it will be some time before we fully appreciate just how profound a change today was for our relationship with Europe.
 
all EU countries decided that all would have have to ratify the treaty in order for the treaty to move forward. this was aggreed opon before this vote. Now it has not gone the way of europe their going to move on with Lisbon anyway. Another example of why Europe cannot be trusted to act on its own rules. Any wonder there was a no vote.
 
television said:
all EU countries decided that all would have have to ratify the treaty in order for the treaty to move forward. this was aggreed opon before this vote. Now it has not gone the way of europe their going to move on with Lisbon anyway. Another example of why Europe cannot be trusted to act on its own rules. Any wonder there was a no vote.
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Maybe, or maybe the other 97% of the EU who have decided to ratify the treaty will decide that maybe they can live without Ireland as part of the future EU. Who's loss will this be? (BTW I don't think this scenario is likely)
 
Nemesis said:
We have no right to block the other 26 states from proceeding with the reforms contained in the Lisbon treaty.
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We have every right!

The rules of this treaty were simple every country had to agree to pass it.

Most of the people I know who voted "No" voted this way because FF seemed to spend more time pointing out who was in the "No" camp and not enough time explaining what the whole thing was about.
 
Thats not the point really.The point it is that it was decided before this vote that allcountryies would have to ratify the treaty or it would be dead (to quote the labour leader) Now we all know its not dead. that other countries will go ahead anyway. Which shows the complete duplicity of the powers that be in europe.
 
It's still not reasonable for one country to stop everyone else whatever was agreed originally. Croatia is a country eager to join the EU and one whose membership fits in with a key strategic objective of the Union to stabilise the Western Balkans and integrate that region into the European family of nations. Its path is now blocked until this mess is sorted out. It's just not realistic to think that Ireland's decision can block everything indefinitely. No one wants to force Ireland into this arrangement if the people are resolutely opposed to it, but equally Ireland cannot just expect to enjoy the benefits of the existing Union which requires that everyone else stand still.
 
Harchibald said:
Is it democratic that 54% of 45% of 1% can call the shots?
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Is it democratic that only 1% gets the opportunity to vote? We now know that the Irish people disagree with it's politicians on the issue, who is to say the same doesn't apply in some or many of the countries that already ratified by parliamentary votes?
 
rmelly said:
Is it democratic that only 1% gets the opportunity to vote? We now know that the Irish people disagree with it's politicians on the issue, who is to say the same doesn't apply in some or many of the countries that already ratified by parliamentary votes?
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Is it democratic that our government decided to privatise Eircom and Aer Lingus without putting the issue to the people? Is it democratic for our government to cut spending on education or health to balance the budget without putting it to the people?
 
Its hilarious to see some people who complain about the lack of democracy in the EU then go on to react with horror at the democratically elected parliamentary representatives of other countries exercising their mandate as they see fit. They have every right to ratify any Treaty they please, and its none of your business I'm afraid.
 
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