The Lisbon vote
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GeneralZod
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Re: Lisbon yes or no?
It seems like an uninspiring collection of sensible enough tweaks to the existing treaties and institutions of the EU. It remains to be seen how much practical difference any of them will make. Each country will carry on acting like they've always done. i.e. self interestedly.
It seems like an uninspiring collection of sensible enough tweaks to the existing treaties and institutions of the EU. It remains to be seen how much practical difference any of them will make. Each country will carry on acting like they've always done. i.e. self interestedly.
Re: Lisbon yes or no?
I'm generally pro-Europe but feel totally uninspired to vote at all on this referendum. I imagine I'd vote yes if I do vote but why do we need to vote on what are generally administrative changes in the EU?
Will see how I feel closer to the actualy referendum, they haven't even announced a date yet!
I'm generally pro-Europe but feel totally uninspired to vote at all on this referendum. I imagine I'd vote yes if I do vote but why do we need to vote on what are generally administrative changes in the EU?
Will see how I feel closer to the actualy referendum, they haven't even announced a date yet!
R
rmelly
Guest
Re: Lisbon yes or no?
no - the experiment has gone too far and needs to be reigned in - stick to the economic union.
no - the experiment has gone too far and needs to be reigned in - stick to the economic union.
Jack The Lad
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Re: Lisbon? No.
To me it's like trying to build an overelaborate skyscraper on a crumbling foundation, designed and overseen by a committee of lunatics.
The EEC was formed to do two things. Keep Germany, France and England from each other's throats, and to ensure a guaranteed supply of food from farm to table. Now it's a bloated bureaucratic mess...
A big NO from me anyway.
Can't wait to get at that ballot-paper!
To me it's like trying to build an overelaborate skyscraper on a crumbling foundation, designed and overseen by a committee of lunatics.
The EEC was formed to do two things. Keep Germany, France and England from each other's throats, and to ensure a guaranteed supply of food from farm to table. Now it's a bloated bureaucratic mess...
A big NO from me anyway.
Can't wait to get at that ballot-paper!
Jack The Lad
Registered User
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Re: Lisbon yes or no?
I can see where you're comming from, but (cliché comming up here; apologies in advance)...
...two wrongs don't make a right.
I can see where you're comming from, but (cliché comming up here; apologies in advance)...
...two wrongs don't make a right.
Re: Lisbon yes or no?
FG and Labour are also supporting Lisbon. My point is that all of the middle ground (middle 90%) are supporting it. The 5% at either extreme are opposing it. That's a good enough reason for me.
The fact that I don't like nationalism and have no problem with the idea of a federal Europe may also factor there somewhere
FG and Labour are also supporting Lisbon. My point is that all of the middle ground (middle 90%) are supporting it. The 5% at either extreme are opposing it. That's a good enough reason for me.
The fact that I don't like nationalism and have no problem with the idea of a federal Europe may also factor there somewhere
GeneralZod
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Re: Lisbon yes or no?
No need to worry then.
The job is actually President of the European Council (of heads of government) and is largely an administrative role with the odd opportunity to act as a figurehead when representing the council.
No need to worry then.
The job is actually President of the European Council (of heads of government) and is largely an administrative role with the odd opportunity to act as a figurehead when representing the council.
Re: Lisbon yes or no?
....but what are they supporting exactly? Are the contents of the treaty explicitly called out in layman's terms. I have yet to see what the pro's/con's are with it.
....but what are they supporting exactly? Are the contents of the treaty explicitly called out in layman's terms. I have yet to see what the pro's/con's are with it.
Re: Lisbon yes or no?
No treaty is ever written in layman's terms; it's a legal document.
Re: Lisbon yes or no?
....exactly & as a result there are very few who understand its contents & its implications. Are we to believe that each of the political representatives who are endorsing it also fully understand it.
This being the case then the major parties are expecting herd mentality to get this passed.
As a result of this I am interested in hearing what those who are against it have to say.
Has there already been a level of political debate on this ... on Primetime or whatever?
....exactly & as a result there are very few who understand its contents & its implications. Are we to believe that each of the political representatives who are endorsing it also fully understand it.
This being the case then the major parties are expecting herd mentality to get this passed.
As a result of this I am interested in hearing what those who are against it have to say.
Has there already been a level of political debate on this ... on Primetime or whatever?
GeneralZod
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Re: Lisbon yes or no?
Prime Time has given it some coverage.
Here's what the Irish MEPs have to say on it. Force yourself to read down through them, very boring, but it should be informative on what the arguments are. All of the MEPs except the SF one are pro but often they attempt to rebut the arguments of the anti camp.
Prime Time has given it some coverage.
Here's what the Irish MEPs have to say on it. Force yourself to read down through them, very boring, but it should be informative on what the arguments are. All of the MEPs except the SF one are pro but often they attempt to rebut the arguments of the anti camp.
Re: Lisbon yes or no?
Fully agree with the above. I'll be voting NO. There's nothing in this treaty for Ireland just giving the EU more power over us, that's why the YES camp won't argue on it's merits. The governments are shameless and brazen to repackage this constitution which has already been rejected by the French and Dutch people. The Irish people have an opportunity to speak for the peoples of Europe, whom have been denied a voice. The politicians serve us, not the other way around as they seem to think. A NO would be good for democracy and for Europe.
Re: Lisbon yes or no?
The Irish Constitution is easy to read and understand. The latest EU treaty is unreadable by design.
Re: Lisbon yes or no?
The constitution is not the same; it is a framework within which our laws sit. Legislation is required to turn its aspirations into actions.
The constitution is not the same; it is a framework within which our laws sit. Legislation is required to turn its aspirations into actions.
Re: Lisbon yes or no?
I will be voting YES.
Practically every aspect of our ionvolvement with the EU over the years has been positive:
1. Huge income gains to farmers via the CAP
2. Boost to our human capital via the ESF.
3. Huge improvements to our infrastructure from the ERDF.
4. Huge gains to trade, from the single market.
5. Single currency is a success.
6. Environmental improvements encouraged or forced by the EU.
And many, many more.
I will be voting YES.
Practically every aspect of our ionvolvement with the EU over the years has been positive:
1. Huge income gains to farmers via the CAP
2. Boost to our human capital via the ESF.
3. Huge improvements to our infrastructure from the ERDF.
4. Huge gains to trade, from the single market.
5. Single currency is a success.
6. Environmental improvements encouraged or forced by the EU.
And many, many more.