WHats the strategy in calling an election for BJ?

[EmmDee]

Can I correct something I said in my post above....

....
I think the release last night was really just a distraction - though politically terrible for the Government. The real jeopardy for BJ is if, as I suspect will be the next step, a case is brought to attempt an injunction to force the Government to comply with the release of communications. That has the potential to be open up a can of worms
....

I was mistaken. The "Humble Address" passed isn't legislation and therefore if the Government doesn't comply there is no court injunction option. It could only lead to the Parliament deciding to vote the Government in contempt - which is something that almost happened earlier this year on another Grieve motion but the Government complied before the vote. Whether they would care this time is probably open to question

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

They are three "nations" legally.

But one sovereign state. A mystery, you might say. Any thoughts of which are the Father, Son and Holy Ghost? England, Scotland and NI for me.

 

[EmmDee]

But one sovereign state. A mystery, you might say. Any thoughts of which are the Father, Son and Holy Ghost? England, Scotland and NI for me.

They should adopt, as a national symbol, a plant or flower that reflects three objects as part of one whole.... there's got to be something out there

 

[joe sod]

@EmmDee you made the point that Irish and English law are a lot closer than English and Scots, as Irish law comes from English law, but would it not be more correct that Irish law is much closer to the English law as it existed in 1920. As we all know the Irish legal system is very slow to reform, probably the most unreformed legal system on these islands. Also it is worth noting that the English system baulked on stepping on the toes of the parliament, it more or less said that these issues were outside its remit.
On the other hand the Irish courts are very quick to over rule decisions made by the dail using very dubious mechanisms, usually relating to very liberal interpretations of the constitution. And the Irish politicians seem to very meek and compliant with these rulings. I think there would be uproar in the house of commons if the English courts made similar decisions and muscled in to the work of the parliament.

 

[cremeegg]

@EmmDee you made the point that Irish and English law are a lot closer than English and Scots, as Irish law comes from English law, but would it not be more correct that Irish law is much closer to the English law as it existed in 1920.

With the major exception of the constitution.

On the other hand the Irish courts are very quick to over rule decisions made by the dail using very dubious mechanisms, usually relating to very liberal interpretations of the constitution.

The absolute power of the courts to interpret the constitution is clearly laid out in the constitution. Nothing dubious about it at all.

 

[AileenWalsh]

Jeremy Corbyn is actually surprisingly popular with younger voters, but he alienates all slightly left of middle to right leaning voters who might otherwise vote labour. Persuade Jeremy Corbyn to resign, and Boris would start back pedalling very fast. I still think the Tories have made themselves unelectable for a generation at least. I wouldn't be hugely surprised to see something like a labour, lib dem, SNP coalition.

Jeremy Corbyn resign? Never you would have to kill him first.

 

[WolfeTone]

Oliver Callan: DUP objections to NI-only backstop are phoney

North already diverges from many significant laws enacted across the rest of the UK

www.irishtimes.com

Oliver Callan demonstrating in one page what 22 pages of another Brexit topic tried to do!

 

[Purple]

John Fitzgerald outlines the economic disaster that a United Ireland world be here.

 

[WolfeTone]

John Fitzgerald outlines the economic disaster that a United Ireland world be here.

I think this would merit a thread by itself. I would find it hard to agree with much, if anything at all, in this article.

 

[Purple]

I think this would merit a thread by itself. I would find it hard to agree with much, if anything at all, in this article.

What, in your opinion, did he get factually wrong?

 

[Ceist Beag]

Are there actually any facts in that article? I know he's an economist but just how many could/might/may/ifs can one squeeze into one article? Answers below.

might=2
could=12
may=3
if=11

 

[WolfeTone]

What, in your opinion, did he get factually wrong?

Its just an opinion piece. I disagree with his assessment.

 

[Purple]

Are there actually any facts in that article? I know he's an economist but just how many could/might/may/ifs can one squeeze into one article? Answers below.

might=2
could=12
may=3
if=11

It is based on an ESRI report "Northern Ireland Economy: Problems and Prospects" by John Fitzgerald and Edgar Morgenroth. I am hoping that the full report will be published on the ESRI website.

 

[Purple]

Its just an opinion piece. I disagree with his assessment.

The school dropout rate, the subsidy from the UK exchequer, the cost to the Irish State in the event of Irish unity. Which bit do you think he got wrong?

Edit; link to report on TCD website.

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

Oliver Callan: DUP objections to NI-only backstop are phoney

North already diverges from many significant laws enacted across the rest of the UK

www.irishtimes.com

Oliver Callan demonstrating in one page what 22 pages of another Brexit topic tried to do!

Don't want to start another 22 pages. Of course the DUP and UUP case is phoney. It is in response to the phoney pan nationalist argument that any tweak to the border spells the end of the peace process.

 

[Purple]

Don't want to start another 22 pages. Of course the DUP and UUP case is phoney. It is in response to the phoney pan nationalist argument that any tweak to the border spells the end of the peace process.

Chicken and Egg, me thinks.

 

[WolfeTone]

Don't want to start another 22 pages.

Granted.

Of course the DUP and UUP case is phoney. It is in response to the phoney pan nationalist argument that any tweak to the border spells the end of the peace process.

I don't think there is any parallel here. The DUP position is based on argument that is factually shown to be untrue.
The Irish government/EU position is based on political aspiration.
John Bruton summed it up nicely. The GFA is about bringing communities in NI closer together (in theory), bringing North and South closer to together, bringing Ireland and Britain closer together. It is about convergence.
Brexit is about divergence, the opposite of what the GFA is about.

*thats my last comment on this thread.

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

*thats my last comment on this thread.

Great, you have given me the last word
Leo's "we will not desert Northern Nationalists this time" is going down in notoriety with you know who's "they haven't gone away you know". With business and farming leaders in favour of an all Ireland backstop and with the UUP initially anti Brexit, this should never have become a Catholic/Protestant issue.

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

It will probably be reversed at Supreme Court but it just adds a ton more negative news and puts further pressure on the Parliamentary Party

 

[Brendan Burgess]

Apparently Boris is thinking of appealing the decision of the Supreme Court to the European Court of Justice.

Brendan