I think Leper is lamenting the societal changes that have taken place in recent decades which necessitate people doing their shopping and chores on Sundays.
Thank you - Dunnes Stores.
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Ceist Beag
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That may be so Purple but see below for the many quotes from Leper suggesting people choose and enjoy doing grocery shopping on a Sunday. For many it's not a choice and they certainly don't enjoy it so I don't really see why he is so upset with "such people" as he calls them. Leper is in a more privileged place than "such people" clearly.
I try to avoid conjecture on the place poster are in. We know only a tiny fraction about each other when we post here.
Ceist Beag
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I'm not sure what you're reading into my statement Purple, I thought it was obvious I was commenting within the context of this thread, i.e. the privileged place being a place where you have the choice not to have to do grocery shopping on a Sunday. There was nothing more to read into it than that.
This is so true and I really wish more people took personal responsibility for their futures! Your employer owes you nothing and likewise you actually owe your employer nothing either. It always amuses me when someone is left go they feel a great injustice has been done ("I gave them 20 years of my life"), but when someone resigns from a job to go elsewhere it's OK!
Fair enough.
Hi Leper,
I hear where you are coming from. I've often passed a Tesco on a Sunday when they weather is good and the carpark is full and wondered what people were doing going in there. It's a romantic notion that all the supermarkets should be closed on Sundays, but in reality, for a lot of people, it would be a pain in the backside - people work all sorts of hours these days and for families, both couples often work. If supermarkets HAD to close on Sundays, people would of course survive by adapting their schedules, but there's obviously a demand for it. As you mention, supermarkets do open on Sundays to make a profit, however, it's a bit naive to think that the local shop you might buy your Sunday paper from or the hotel you may go for a drink is there for the public good!
Sunday opening hours are just a fact of life I'm afraid and it's up to everyone to decide how to spend their time.
Firefly.
I hear where you are coming from. I've often passed a Tesco on a Sunday when they weather is good and the carpark is full and wondered what people were doing going in there. It's a romantic notion that all the supermarkets should be closed on Sundays, but in reality, for a lot of people, it would be a pain in the backside - people work all sorts of hours these days and for families, both couples often work. If supermarkets HAD to close on Sundays, people would of course survive by adapting their schedules, but there's obviously a demand for it. As you mention, supermarkets do open on Sundays to make a profit, however, it's a bit naive to think that the local shop you might buy your Sunday paper from or the hotel you may go for a drink is there for the public good!
Sunday opening hours are just a fact of life I'm afraid and it's up to everyone to decide how to spend their time.
Firefly.
Regarding zero-contract hours, I'm with the workers on this one. I am pro-capitalist in general, but this is a step too far in my opinion. Decent planning by management should ensure adequate staffing levels...they mightn't achieve 100% efficiency, but the human cost must come in to it. Complainer posted here some time ago that we are a society first. Although, I still believe that a society can be best served by a free market economy, there must be boundaries to this. The days of men lining out on the quaysides each morning looking for work shoud never return. At a minimum you should know how much work is going for the following week.
Firefly
Firefly
Purple and Firefly have hit the nail on the head regarding my position on Sunday supermarket shopping. I know the clock will not be turned back regarding the likes of Sunday shopping. Pity too! Call it what you like, but it is not progress.
In my working career I have worked continuous night duty, split attendances, shift work, was a good parent, a good husband, a good son, a good brother, sometimes had no car, had a few bob, was broke, etc. I can say that I never had any need to use Sunday as a supermarket shopping day. If that is a privileged position, then I plead guilty. It would take much convincing for me to accept that people cannot find time Monday - Saturday to shop.
I know such people like Ceist Beag and Sunny have some difficulty in what I am saying, but please realise that I am entitled to my views as are you.
In my working career I have worked continuous night duty, split attendances, shift work, was a good parent, a good husband, a good son, a good brother, sometimes had no car, had a few bob, was broke, etc. I can say that I never had any need to use Sunday as a supermarket shopping day. If that is a privileged position, then I plead guilty. It would take much convincing for me to accept that people cannot find time Monday - Saturday to shop.
I know such people like Ceist Beag and Sunny have some difficulty in what I am saying, but please realise that I am entitled to my views as are you.
Ceist Beag
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Leper I have absolutely no issue with your view that Sunday is a day to enjoy - I take the same view myself and count myself quite fortunate that I'm in a position to do so. The only issue I have is with your statements that those who do otherwise are doing it for the enjoyment of grocery shopping or that it is in any way a highlight of the week for them. That just sounds a bit judgemental to me. Anyway, we're not really on topic here, this is supposed to be a thread on the Dunnes Stores workers, whom I very much support in their stance. Firefly put it quite well there so I'll leave it at a +1 to that post.
Was chatting to a neighbour down West at the weekend who works in Dunnes. It's all set up for an escalation in the coming weeks/months as Dunnes Mgmt aren't talking...some friction going on too between workers who went on strike and Mgmt on a day to day basis.
Neighbour said they weren't happy with the day of the strike itself. Stores with only 1 entrance meant no workers crossed. But Stores with several entrances were harder to watch and a lot of workers crossed the line...mostly 'new Irish' as the IT would call them. And a lot of customer went in shopping also...again mostly non-nationals.
Neighbour said they weren't happy with the day of the strike itself. Stores with only 1 entrance meant no workers crossed. But Stores with several entrances were harder to watch and a lot of workers crossed the line...mostly 'new Irish' as the IT would call them. And a lot of customer went in shopping also...again mostly non-nationals.
The_Banker
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I think Margaret Heffernan is so dominant on the Dunnes board that she may not see the woods for the trees. They successfully won two previous strikes in the 80s and 90s and I believe she hasn’t moved with the times.
While the small number of strikers campaigning against apartheid in the 80s went on strike they garnered more international support than they did national support. Shopping in Dunnes did not fall off because of that strike.
The strike in the 90s won the workers some concessions and didn’t last long (but it hurt Dunnes financially) and while staff won the battle they lost the war as all the concessions were rolled back over the intervening years.
I think this strike is somewhat different… In the 80s and 90s any opinions regarding the strikes were discussed in newspapers and radio/television news bulletins. Now it is being discussed on social media. Everyone now more or less has a phone and they get updates instantly via social media.
When you are bombarded with facts/pictures constantly on twitter/facebook and all your friends say they are boycotting Dunnes then it is a lot harder to go against the flow. Added to this all social commentators in the opinion pieces of national newspapers are backing the striking staff.
Due to the support on social media I think the staff now will get a better response now to people boycotting Dunnes than they did back in the 80s/90s. I think only one or two staff have been let go by Dunnes since the strike but if you ask most people they will think it is much higher.
One of the guys dismissed had a very polished video published on line regarding his dismissal and shows that the Union are fighting this battle on social media. Dunnes on the other hand are not… choosing not to engage so they are losing the propaganda war.
Ultimately this is slowly leading to an all out strike because the Unions have drawn a line in the sand in relation to the growth of zero hour contracts and they want it nipped in the bud before other companies start implementing them. Dunnes for their part have built a war chest as they know this is coming and are prepared.
Ultimately I think if the staff are resolute enough I think they will win as customers have so much choice now with Aldi/Lidl / SuperValu / Tesco and customers wont be too inconvenienced like they would have been by an all out action back in the 80s/90s…
If she isnt careful I think Margaret Heffernan will lead Dunnes over a cliff. She will either be ousted by the younger members of the board (the Mahons) or because of the strike action and they lose market share and have to sell to a large UK multiple (Sainsbury/Asda)..
While the small number of strikers campaigning against apartheid in the 80s went on strike they garnered more international support than they did national support. Shopping in Dunnes did not fall off because of that strike.
The strike in the 90s won the workers some concessions and didn’t last long (but it hurt Dunnes financially) and while staff won the battle they lost the war as all the concessions were rolled back over the intervening years.
I think this strike is somewhat different… In the 80s and 90s any opinions regarding the strikes were discussed in newspapers and radio/television news bulletins. Now it is being discussed on social media. Everyone now more or less has a phone and they get updates instantly via social media.
When you are bombarded with facts/pictures constantly on twitter/facebook and all your friends say they are boycotting Dunnes then it is a lot harder to go against the flow. Added to this all social commentators in the opinion pieces of national newspapers are backing the striking staff.
Due to the support on social media I think the staff now will get a better response now to people boycotting Dunnes than they did back in the 80s/90s. I think only one or two staff have been let go by Dunnes since the strike but if you ask most people they will think it is much higher.
One of the guys dismissed had a very polished video published on line regarding his dismissal and shows that the Union are fighting this battle on social media. Dunnes on the other hand are not… choosing not to engage so they are losing the propaganda war.
Ultimately this is slowly leading to an all out strike because the Unions have drawn a line in the sand in relation to the growth of zero hour contracts and they want it nipped in the bud before other companies start implementing them. Dunnes for their part have built a war chest as they know this is coming and are prepared.
Ultimately I think if the staff are resolute enough I think they will win as customers have so much choice now with Aldi/Lidl / SuperValu / Tesco and customers wont be too inconvenienced like they would have been by an all out action back in the 80s/90s…
If she isnt careful I think Margaret Heffernan will lead Dunnes over a cliff. She will either be ousted by the younger members of the board (the Mahons) or because of the strike action and they lose market share and have to sell to a large UK multiple (Sainsbury/Asda)..
The trades unions have been too quiet for years. They have got involved in almost everything except representing their members on core issues. Consequently, members are voting with their feet and ceasing their membership and saving themselves a few bob in the process. In a nutshell, in recent years the trades unions have shot themselves in the foot and now must be seen to represent workers more. They now have an added dilemma if they go on strike because it could be nullified by non union members who do not have to support any union action. And depending on the public for support is a misnomer, social media or not. A reduction in price on a few items will see the public marching into Dunnes in droves and waving their purchases sadistically in the strikers' faces on their way out. Dunnes won't rest on their laurels either and will bombard the gullible public with offers of 20% discount, like they did a few weeks ago and probably will add free home delivery. Support from the public - with few exceptions, forget it!
Dunnes sought to take advantage of sleeping trades unions and tried to introduce zero hour contracts. I wonder if they expected the unions to remain asleep? So it will be interesting to see the outcome and if trades unions will behave like trades unions should. It will be interesting too, to see how Dunnes local management will behave.
The message is clear to the trades unions:- Get out of the bed you have been sharing with management for years and do what you have been paid to do.
Dunnes sought to take advantage of sleeping trades unions and tried to introduce zero hour contracts. I wonder if they expected the unions to remain asleep? So it will be interesting to see the outcome and if trades unions will behave like trades unions should. It will be interesting too, to see how Dunnes local management will behave.
The message is clear to the trades unions:- Get out of the bed you have been sharing with management for years and do what you have been paid to do.
Zero hour contracts are not a new thing. I don't think they are a new thing in Dunnes Stores either.
Therefore I don't see this as the thin end the wedge as most employers either don't agree with treating their employees like that or have stable labour requirements and so have no need for zero hour contracts so let's not make this into something it isn't. I do not agree with zero hour contracts, particularly in the way Dunnes use them, and support this strike but it's a Dunnes Stores issue and not something that is prevalent across the wider economy.
Therefore I don't see this as the thin end the wedge as most employers either don't agree with treating their employees like that or have stable labour requirements and so have no need for zero hour contracts so let's not make this into something it isn't. I do not agree with zero hour contracts, particularly in the way Dunnes use them, and support this strike but it's a Dunnes Stores issue and not something that is prevalent across the wider economy.
totally agree with that, trade unions are got far too cushy in recent times, they are paid to represent workers and thats what they should be doing, not pussy footing around. Companies like Dunnes who refuse to negotiate with unions should be brought to their knees..
Now thats just extreme left wing nonsense.
There's plenty of employment law, courts etc that will allow for employees with grievances to tackle their employer....no need for Unions everywhere!
Unions have a long history of destroying businesses and putting their own members out of work. Therefore employees in businesses that are open to competition, both management and non management (they all work and so are all workers), have a very real and legitimate fear of unions and their destructive influence. It is unreasonable and unjust to expect union recognition where the majority of employees do not want it.
Trade Unions have become political lobby groups and involved themselves in areas which have nothing to do with them. They have sought to subvert the democratic workings of the state by influencing and controlling government policy in a vast number of areas rather than representing their members in the context of their relationship with their employers. It is disgraceful that they, the biggest and most powerful lobby groups in the country, are exempt from the recent legislation requiring lobbyist to register.
They need to get back to what they are meant to do and stop with the grandiose bombast and posturing.
If Unions had their way, there'd be no Ryanair...and we'd still be paying the equivalent of €1k to fly to London.
And to think some people still pine for the halcyon days of Aer Lingus when it was in it's pomp
If Unions had their way, there'd be no Ryanair...and we'd still be paying the equivalent of €1k to fly to London.
And to think some people still pine for the halcyon days of Aer Lingus when it was in it's pomp
You have a fierce imagination there, Delboy.