You should be thanking the customers of Bank of Ireland and the rest of the people of Ireland who are paying for your holiday(s), not your union.I really don't understand your concluding para - any Unions job is to protect & if possible enhance the terms & conditions of it's members - your Dad's teacher friend must be thrilled that his Union membership brought him such benefits , I should point out that I'm posting this from A Coruna where I'm enjoying my third holiday of the year with my wife who recently retired from BOI on an excellent redundancy package .
As a BOI early retiree myself I get down on my knees every day & thank God for Union membership
Thank you - Dunnes Stores.
- Thread starter Deiseblue
- Start date
Well, I wish every union member enjoyed the same benefits as Déise and Mrs Déise which to me appear to be like a major prize win in the Lotto. However, in my days as union representative in relatively low paid grades in the Public Service I should point out I spent my time trying to improve conditions, working hours and general feel-good of the workplace. Even during my day's normal work my union input was additional and often a member would call to my home "in secret" to have something discussed. This could be anything from cleanliness in the workplace to abject bullying.
Largely, I found myself representing people (mainly female) who would not speak up for themselves and sought total privacy. The local junior management (members of the same union) seldom saw reason to change anything. [We've been doing what we're doing for years and if it was good enough for us, it is good enough for you!]. The Herd Instinct ruled and if a couple of lipsticked brain-dead individuals thought so, no improvements occurred. Enter Leper, a hardened veteran defender of any kind of injustice. Staff were represented verbally, and for the first time followed up by letter and later by written reminders. Waterford Whispers, innuendo, sending-to-Coventry, leers, and much more followed. Even the people seeking what I was representing openly sided with the Herd. Generally, I found myself fighting other peoples battles alone [the phrase banging my head against the wall comes to mind].
Strangely, more senior management saw what I was doing and I found some good allies there. You see, they were trapped in a situation where they depended on their junior management for local information too which was never forthcoming. Trying to change anything was like expecting the sun never to rise. Some of the junior management (usually when more senior posts were advertised) often went off on "solo runs" and somehow thought that by introducing more draconian measures for other staff helped their promotion prospects.
The point I am trying to make (Get to the point, Leper!) is that local union reps fight losing battles daily for even the minutest improvements. Unions do not have anything like the power hinted at on some of the threads on this forum.
[I'll return to this later, doorbell just rang and it's 7.00am]
Largely, I found myself representing people (mainly female) who would not speak up for themselves and sought total privacy. The local junior management (members of the same union) seldom saw reason to change anything. [We've been doing what we're doing for years and if it was good enough for us, it is good enough for you!]. The Herd Instinct ruled and if a couple of lipsticked brain-dead individuals thought so, no improvements occurred. Enter Leper, a hardened veteran defender of any kind of injustice. Staff were represented verbally, and for the first time followed up by letter and later by written reminders. Waterford Whispers, innuendo, sending-to-Coventry, leers, and much more followed. Even the people seeking what I was representing openly sided with the Herd. Generally, I found myself fighting other peoples battles alone [the phrase banging my head against the wall comes to mind].
Strangely, more senior management saw what I was doing and I found some good allies there. You see, they were trapped in a situation where they depended on their junior management for local information too which was never forthcoming. Trying to change anything was like expecting the sun never to rise. Some of the junior management (usually when more senior posts were advertised) often went off on "solo runs" and somehow thought that by introducing more draconian measures for other staff helped their promotion prospects.
The point I am trying to make (Get to the point, Leper!) is that local union reps fight losing battles daily for even the minutest improvements. Unions do not have anything like the power hinted at on some of the threads on this forum.
[I'll return to this later, doorbell just rang and it's 7.00am]
Leper , a 7 a.m call - I hope IBEC haven't sent the heavies around !
Both myself and my wife were indeed blessed.
I left at a ridiculously early age in 2007 with a lump sum both from the Bank & the State and a pension equal to approx half my finishing salary & then signed on for a year .
Somewhat to my amazement given the downturn in BOI's fortunes since then my wife retired earlier this year on excellent terms ( the one proviso is that she has to wait 2 years before the pension kicks in ) but the lump sum helps & she is currently signing on & the training grant enables her to do a variety of courses.
Both of us served in a voluntary capacity as Branch/Departmental reps for years & then progressed to being regional secretaries , both capacities involved giving up a lot of free time but both of us found it rewarding & felt it was the least we could do in view of the benefits accrued from Union membership - as you say there were indeed trying times & representing members was never easy especially after the 1992 strike & to be honest I was glad to leave it all behind me although I remain a pensioner member to this day & am still actively involved but thankfully at a non confrontational level !
Both myself and my wife were indeed blessed.
I left at a ridiculously early age in 2007 with a lump sum both from the Bank & the State and a pension equal to approx half my finishing salary & then signed on for a year .
Somewhat to my amazement given the downturn in BOI's fortunes since then my wife retired earlier this year on excellent terms ( the one proviso is that she has to wait 2 years before the pension kicks in ) but the lump sum helps & she is currently signing on & the training grant enables her to do a variety of courses.
Both of us served in a voluntary capacity as Branch/Departmental reps for years & then progressed to being regional secretaries , both capacities involved giving up a lot of free time but both of us found it rewarding & felt it was the least we could do in view of the benefits accrued from Union membership - as you say there were indeed trying times & representing members was never easy especially after the 1992 strike & to be honest I was glad to leave it all behind me although I remain a pensioner member to this day & am still actively involved but thankfully at a non confrontational level !
Kool Aid - I have never heard of it & I'm sure the majority of posters here are not aware of it's properties or effectiveness & I have no intention of googling it
I well remember Perot & BOI outsourcing Cabinteely staff to same , you will surely agree that IT was in it's infancy in this country at the time & there was not anything like the demand for IT staff that followed in more recent decades & thus staff had little option but to transfer .
The irony of course is that is was the fact that the major Banks held out during the 1992 strike due to computerisation & then the scabs in BOI when Perot came knocking on the door sought & found the protection of the IBOA !
I really don't understand your concluding para - any Unions job is to protect & if possible enhance the terms & conditions of it's members - your Dad's teacher friend must be thrilled that his Union membership brought him such benefits , I should point out that I'm posting this from A Coruna where I'm enjoying my third holiday of the year with my wife who recently retired from BOI on an excellent redundancy package .
As a BOI early retiree myself I get down on my knees every day & thank God for Union membership
I do realise how lucky both myself & my wife are but we worked hard , showed loyalty , paid into a Union negotiated DB scheme & most importantly were lucky enough to work in a hugely Unionised workforce & are now reaping the benefits !
Hi Deise,
You must be itching to know what Kool Aid is! Go on, Google it, I dare ya
Anyway, my point is that the money has to come from somewhere! Even though the taxpayer bailed out BoI, I'm actually not too bothered about BoI pensions as BoI has fully repaid the taxpayer at this stage. BoI customers probably pay higher charges than they otherwise would do though. In the case of public sector pensions, the government must allocate funds to his pension that could be spent relieving said old woman on a trolley in A&E. That's my point really. It means resources are diverted from where they are needed most. Wound't anyone (especially those on the Left who advocate fairness) be in favour of reducing pensions to the point where only 2 foreign trips a year could be afforded to fix the aforementiond old lady on an A&E trolley?
As I've mentioned before, Mrs Firefly worked in the HSE for a good number of years and we ourselves will be due a half-decent pension as a result. (I actually have a small, defined benefit pension from BoI myself so thanks for reminding me of that!). Even though she has left, her pension will be based on the final salary for her grade, which come retirement should be way higher than when she left. Basically, she could earn more when retired than when working. We certainly won't be turning the money away ourselves, but it just seems wrong to me though. Having said that, like you we'll be holidaying ourselves when, please God, the time comes
Firefly.
Just to clear up matters from my post with finished at 7.00am today due to an interruption. Mick-the-Pole (although he is a Slovak) rang the door-bell - I had put out the wrong wheelie bin.
Back to the unions, but first Firefly have another look at Mrs Firefly's HSE pension. It is impossible that her pension is worth more than her HSE fulltime working hours. It may be that she left the HSE and is employed by an agency and combined agency wages + pension = greater amount that her full HSE wages.
Most unions work hard at what they do. CPSU represents low grades in the Civil Service. SIPTU represents others. IMPACT has input also but occasionally fails to remember where its membership actually is. CPSU (formerly CPSSU) was ignored for years until a few years ago it became a little bit militant and gained some respect. SIPTU knocks away but probably has lost most of its nursing membership who scurried to Nurses and Midwives union and I don't blame them. IMPACT is becoming almost irrelevant unless you work in the airline industry.
Why is trade unionism strong in the Public Service/Civil Service? We have to go back to the 1970's. Nurses were treated like 2nd class citizens. Our Gardaí were treated similiarly - remember Government Ministers openly threatening transfers to obscure places west of the Shannon even on live television. The unions representing the nurses and Gardaí circled the wagons and fought back. They are not going to concede the ground they have gained recession or no recession. The CPSU who were openly laughed at by management and treated with disdain by other unions also circled their wagons and fought back. They have rightly dug in also.
The likes of SIPTU and IMPACT have become largely irrelevant in the Public Service and are losing members by the minute and when they waste their time looking around instead of in the mirror they are oblivious to what is really happening.
Back in the 1980's we Public Servants/Civil Servants looked on in awe at the banks and what gains they made wages wise and every otherwise. The banks staff lorded it over everybody. They thought they would never see a poor day. But, that poor day came and they with their greedy management brought the whole country down with them.
So, we are coming out of the Doldrums . . . well according to our politicians . . . and the trades unions members are looking for some restoration of what was stolen (use any word you wish, but stolen is the correct word) from their members. I stress it is restoration is what we are talking about not new salary increases.
So, let's see how our trades unions perform. Let's see what kind of restoration happens.
Back to the unions, but first Firefly have another look at Mrs Firefly's HSE pension. It is impossible that her pension is worth more than her HSE fulltime working hours. It may be that she left the HSE and is employed by an agency and combined agency wages + pension = greater amount that her full HSE wages.
Most unions work hard at what they do. CPSU represents low grades in the Civil Service. SIPTU represents others. IMPACT has input also but occasionally fails to remember where its membership actually is. CPSU (formerly CPSSU) was ignored for years until a few years ago it became a little bit militant and gained some respect. SIPTU knocks away but probably has lost most of its nursing membership who scurried to Nurses and Midwives union and I don't blame them. IMPACT is becoming almost irrelevant unless you work in the airline industry.
Why is trade unionism strong in the Public Service/Civil Service? We have to go back to the 1970's. Nurses were treated like 2nd class citizens. Our Gardaí were treated similiarly - remember Government Ministers openly threatening transfers to obscure places west of the Shannon even on live television. The unions representing the nurses and Gardaí circled the wagons and fought back. They are not going to concede the ground they have gained recession or no recession. The CPSU who were openly laughed at by management and treated with disdain by other unions also circled their wagons and fought back. They have rightly dug in also.
The likes of SIPTU and IMPACT have become largely irrelevant in the Public Service and are losing members by the minute and when they waste their time looking around instead of in the mirror they are oblivious to what is really happening.
Back in the 1980's we Public Servants/Civil Servants looked on in awe at the banks and what gains they made wages wise and every otherwise. The banks staff lorded it over everybody. They thought they would never see a poor day. But, that poor day came and they with their greedy management brought the whole country down with them.
So, we are coming out of the Doldrums . . . well according to our politicians . . . and the trades unions members are looking for some restoration of what was stolen (use any word you wish, but stolen is the correct word) from their members. I stress it is restoration is what we are talking about not new salary increases.
So, let's see how our trades unions perform. Let's see what kind of restoration happens.
Hi Leper,
You're probably right. My point is that Mrs Firefly will be due her pension a long time from now. I would expect the salary for her grade (a senior medical grade) to be quite higher at that point to when it was when she was working and as a result the pension from that higher amount to be quite generous. Obviously there will be inflation / cost of living increases as well though..
Firefly.
Hi Firefly, before you start thinking of investing in that Manhattan apartment overlooking Central Park here is how you can get a good idea of what Mrs Firefly's HSE pension will be. Remember wages have fallen at least 14% in the HSE and it will be a long time before restoration takes place. We are talking wages here and not add-ons. So just calculate how many full years your wife worked in the HSE. Multiply here basic salary by the amount of full years worked and divide your answer by 80 = your wife's HSE pension at 65 years of age.