Should we pay more tax to have a better society?

Purple said:
I pay over half my total income in taxes. I then pay VAT when I buy stuff with what's left. I've no big problem with the amount of tax I pay though I'd rather see lower taxes on work and higher taxes on wealth. My problem is with how much of our taxes are wasted by State bodies and agencies. This is particularly the case in our extremely well funded health service but applies pretty much across the board. I have no expectation that increasing taxes would result in any material improvement in services or in society.

The discussion should be "Should the State and its employees waste less of our taxes in order to have a better society". The answer to that is an emphatic yes. But please don't just blame the government and the politicians. The problem is thousands of little problems, knitted into the structures of the Civil and Public Sectors and State funded service providers (including the HSE and everyone paid by it). Those people, to a lesser or greater extent, are to blame and are responsible.
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You’d need to be earning a hell of a lot to be paying over half your total income in taxes!
 
I’m willing to pay more tax for better public services. However I would like to be able to see such public service changes. However this can be very tricky when dealing with the complexities of national budgets.

Elsewhere in the world where far greater decision making and tax raising ability sits a local government level it is possible to see the changes in a relatively short period of time.

Electing councillors who raise taxes may result in new community centres, sports facilities, parks, playgrounds etc. it may even result in hiring more police in your area.

The Irish to that is electing either a TD who gets a nice minister role or better yet an independent who’s vote the government may need to rely on from time to time.
 
Well, the respectable FF/FG parties were involved in a brutally murderous civil war only 100 years ago.

But while we're at it, let's not forget the openly racist councillors that are now being elected, presumably by equally racist constituents.
 
extopia said:
Well, the respectable FF/FG parties were involved in a brutally murderous civil war only 100 years ago.
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Few if any of them were as late as last weekend attending large commemorations for murderous "martyrs".
extopia said:
But while we're at it, let's not forget the openly racist councillors that are now being elected, presumably by equally racist constituents.
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Egregiously sectarian politicians and egregiously racist politicians pointing fingers at one another is a fun game.
 
faketales said:
I’m willing to pay more tax for better public services. However I would like to be able to see such public service changes. However this can be very tricky when dealing with the complexities of national budgets.

Elsewhere in the world where far greater decision making and tax raising ability sits a local government level it is possible to see the changes in a relatively short period of time.

Electing councillors who raise taxes may result in new community centres, sports facilities, parks, playgrounds etc. it may even result in hiring more police in your area.

The Irish to that is electing either a TD who gets a nice minister role or better yet an independent who’s vote the government may need to rely on from time to time.
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In my town we've got a new athletics track, all weather hockey pitch, skateboard park, approval for a new community centre and a refurbed playground in the last 18 months, and all funded fully or partially through central funding. In the last 3 years, we've got a brand new secondary school, and 3 others have either built an extension or have funding and are simply waiting to put shovels in the ground once contracts are signed

Meanwhile, the genuises in the Council have started refurbing one of the main roads leading to 5 schools in the town on the week the kids go back to school causing utter havoc.
 
T McGibney said:
Egregiously sectarian politicians and egregiously racist politicians pointing fingers at one another is a fun game.
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In my experience the sectarian ones are also the racist ones, in the same party, just about kept in check by their masters in Belfast (who are also racist and sectarian but are playing the long game so pretend otherwise).
 
Purple said:
In my experience the sectarian ones are also the racist ones, in the same party, just about kept in check by their masters in Belfast (who are also racist and sectarian but are playing the long game so pretend otherwise).
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Many of their icons and heroes were terribly racist. Among the prominent examples is Dan Breen, the Nazi sympathiser and collaborator who attended a Nazi spy's funeral in Deansgrange in May 1947 by which time the Irish people were well aware of the scale of the Holocaust.
 
T McGibney said:
Many of their icons and heroes were terribly racist. Among the prominent examples is Dan Breen, the Nazi sympathiser and collaborator who attended a Nazi spy's funeral in Deansgrange in May 1947 by which time the Irish people were well aware of the scale of the Holocaust.
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A party built on sectarianism and division, built on it to the extent that murdering the children of those that aren't in your tribe is not just acceptable but heroic, is hardly going to be anything other than sectarian and racist at its core.
 
thedaddyman said:
In my town we've got a new athletics track, all weather hockey pitch, skateboard park, approval for a new community centre and a refurbed playground in the last 18 months, and all funded fully or partially through central funding. In the last 3 years, we've got a brand new secondary school, and 3 others have either built an extension or have funding and are simply waiting to put shovels in the ground once contracts are signed

Meanwhile, the genuises in the Council have started refurbing one of the main roads leading to 5 schools in the town on the week the kids go back to school causing utter havoc.
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Sounds like ye have done well. And no extra taxes. Not so lucky in my area unfortunately. And my taxes remained the same.

It would seem that someone is doing something right in your area. Is there a seat up for grabs in the area? Or maybe it is a council worker who knows his way around an application for facilities.

But my point was why pay more when it’s not really linked to getting more.
 
Honestly getting sick of coming onto a finance website and listening to the same virtue signalling about racism in multiple threads from the same few posters. We get it, you are good generous people, you are fantastic.
Could you not take this to reddit and stick to finance here.
 
Secondincommand said:
Pay more tax for a better society or foot the bill for extra bicycle sheds costing €340k each for our politicians ?
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They're actually more for the Leinster House staff than for the politicians.
I can't really see my local politicians (currently Norma Foley and the Healy-Rae twins), cycling to Leinster House every morning!
 
Forumuser said:
It is difficult to get a builder because there are not enough of them around. No lower tax will change that.
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Lower taxes won't incentivise people to work more overtime or come here and work? There are tens of thousands of people with construction skills on the live register. I think that reducing welfare will change that somewhat.
Forumuser said:
It is difficult to get doctors and nurses because the pay is better in Abu Dhabi or Down Under. No lower tax will change that either.
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Taxes are lower there. That's the big attraction. Anyway, there is negligible net immigration of Irish nurses and doctors. We have a shortage of nurses who want to work full time. I think that it is reasonable to suppose that a generous welfare system and high taxes contribute to that.

Forumuser said:
I do not know about any large numbers of doctors, nurses or builders on the dole because it is "more attractive":rolleyes:
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We know that there are large numbers of builders on welfare.
 
bill_cash said:
Honestly getting sick of coming onto a finance website and listening to the same virtue signalling about racism in multiple threads from the same few posters. We get it, you are good generous people, you are fantastic.
Could you not take this to reddit and stick to finance here.
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Is that aimed at me?
My problem is that I see my taxes being given to intergenerational wasters who think that they are entitled to my taxes. What I call the "Hands off my handouts brigade". I'd rather keep more of my money but if it is to be taken then instead of giving it to Irish wasters I'd rather see it given to immigrants who work and pay taxes and educate their children so that those children won't live off me of my children or other working people who contribute to society.

The waster immigrants who want to live off the system should be sent back where they came from. Problem solved. Unfortunately we can't do that with the waster locals, though I'd happily pay for their plane fare to Rwanda or wherever.

I've a problem with the Irish wasters who imply immigrants are paedophiles etc, as they are only doing so because they are afraid they'll actually have to provide for themselves. I certainly don't want to pay a cent more in taxes to house or feed those people and doing so certainly won't produce a better society.
 
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thedaddyman said:
my town we've got a new athletics track, all weather hockey pitch, skateboard park, approval for a new community centre and a refurbed playground in the last 18 months, and all funded fully or partially through central funding. I
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That's great for your area that you have the pulling power from central government to get that. However regarding funding of sports facilities too much favouritism is given to gaa, so you have a gaa pitch with great facilities etc but only available for gaa games. Now many people would like to play other sports not gaa, especially as they get older. Now fair enough the gaa will do alot of their own fund raising but there is only really room for one sports facility in most places. Most countries you will see just one facility for football , athletics etc so everyone can use them not just specific sports like gaa
 
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