Why would a ban be needed and not individual bans or slaps on the wrist? Isn't that what all the other threads have happen? It will only benefit people when we start making reasoned arguments based on fact or calculated estimates rather than simply indulging in smearing the reputation of those you disagree with.
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Why would a ban be needed and not individual bans or slaps on the wrist? Isn't that what all the other threads have happen? It will only benefit people when we start making reasoned arguments based on fact or calculated estimates rather than simply indulging in smearing the reputation of those you disagree with.
The times is a national paper but most counties outside of dublin will go with local papers because they are cheaper and target their specific audience.
I would never have wasted my clients money on using the times so I have no experience in dealing with them.
In Limerick it is the Limerick leader and they run a property supplement that is financed seperately from the paper and having read the editorials for the last 12 months they haven't papered over the cracks. To be honest most EA's that I know believe its better to be open and honest about the state of things otherwise you lose credibility and you won't sell anything just by saying alls well in the world.
I would read internet forums before I would go through a supplement.
Regarding your assertion that EA's influence the media, i would say that there is very little influence if any. Most EA firms are either on their knees or are operating at very low levels and advertising is one of those things that has to be scrutinised to see its benefit. Alot of EA's carry huge ad bills and when vendors don't pay up it really does add up. EA's cant simply do blanket coverage week on week anymore.
To be honest I was playing devil's advocate. I would love to see the ban lifted and a section like the one created for the April fools gag. My point was it is clear how the ban was justified in the first place from seeing how quickly this thread descended.
As more and more people look to forums like this I think AAM would be a great place for balanced discussions as opposed to other websites out there.
You're having a laugh surely? Gangsters the lot of them!
Its very like the Public v private sector debates really.
There are many people that believe you have to think one way or the other and take it very personally when you disagree with their opinions.
I thought this would be a great debate to have at the moment. It started out as a discussion and then turned into an attack on estate agents and mortgage advisors.
I regret responding like with like, to the verbal insults questioning my motives for posting positive opinions on the industry, but its difficult when you have people who wont actually properly discuss or expand on their views, instead they prefer to simply throw mud at your suggestions . . .
There are many people that believe you have to think one way or the other and take it very personally when you disagree with their opinions.
I thought this would be a great debate to have at the moment. It started out as a discussion and then turned into an attack on estate agents and mortgage advisors.
I regret responding like with like, to the verbal insults questioning my motives for posting positive opinions on the industry, but its difficult when you have people who wont actually properly discuss or expand on their views, instead they prefer to simply throw mud at your suggestions . . .
every last one.
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charliemacck
Guest
Good on the Leader, if so, but with a circulation of 23,000, it's a blip taken in the context of the failure of Irish newspapers on behalf of the consumer.
Presumably most estate agents don't see it that way. Otherise, they would not be handing over millions of euro to newspapers in order to print nice fluffy property supplement in which hard-bitten hacks such as, er, Isabel Morton, complain about first-time buyers having the audacity to ask tough questions to estate agents. (http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/property/2009/0402/1224243846428.html) Instead, they would be giving those millions of euro to anonymous posters on internet forums.
Do you really believe that the single industry responsible for funding a huge proportion of newspaper revenue has no influence on them? That property supplements - which are not marked as funded or commerical or advertorials, but actual news - just happen to be completely positive about property by sheer coincidence? That a newspaper would sack a senior editor for a wisecrack at any Joe Blogg?
You are delightfully innocent.
You say:
"most EA's that I know believe its better to be open and honest about the state of things otherwise you lose credibility and you won't sell anything just by saying alls well in the world."
I'm willing to offer €50 to the charity of your choice if you can show me either a press release or a newspaper article by any of the major estate agents that said, at any point, "now" is not a good time to buy.
I think it is closer to 55,000 but thats not the point, the point is that there are so many sub sections outside of Dublin to also consider when making statements about the 'market'.
the link is broken but I'm not doubting the story. My point regarding supplements is that every week you will see property and every week you will find it difficult to see real drops because vendors dont want that and they ultimately pay for advertising, so people lose interest because everyone else is telling them that prices have dropped by x%. When property was the in thing in this country the supplements were extremely popular, but do you think people are scouring over them or are they more likely to be checking out the junk mail sent by aldi and lidl? Like i said the landscape has changed so the attitude towards sales has to change too.
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charliemacck
Guest
Ah, the "level of gloom" as indicated by what appear to be weekly urgings by the newspapers to tell us that we've hit the bottom of the market - all together now, children, NOW IS THE TIME TO BUY!
The only thing this indicates is that newspapers, while happy enough to hype up the market for their financiers during the bubble, are not about to make themselves appear completely ludicrous by doing a Chemical Ali (Property Tom?) and tell people that prices are still going up while they're actually going down. But you seem to think that this indicates not merely a new reality on their part, but active pessismism, working away at the nation's vital bodily fluids...
Ah, right - it's always a good time to buy, it's never a bad time to buy, there's no such thing as objective reality, and matter is simply energy condensed to a slow vibration.
Your posts are hilarious on so many levels.
Well talk about spitting out the dummy!!!!
Do you all think you could take it down a tone and try and play nice? Please, gentlemen.
The nasty personal comments are really more a reflection of the posters making them than the people they are directed at. And the word trolling adequately describes a lot of the posts in recent times.
In the end of the day, it is for responsible adults to make their own responsible decisions as to whether or not they buy now. This country has such a well developed sense of victimhood and blame gaming that that very simple concept seems to have been lost.
Vested interests or no vested interests, it does boil down to personal responsibility.
mf
Do you all think you could take it down a tone and try and play nice? Please, gentlemen.
The nasty personal comments are really more a reflection of the posters making them than the people they are directed at. And the word trolling adequately describes a lot of the posts in recent times.
In the end of the day, it is for responsible adults to make their own responsible decisions as to whether or not they buy now. This country has such a well developed sense of victimhood and blame gaming that that very simple concept seems to have been lost.
Vested interests or no vested interests, it does boil down to personal responsibility.
mf
The gloom is a reality that is why it is being printed. The boom was also a reality, should papers not have printed that people queued overnight to buy houses or that developments were sold out in hours? You can pick out instances where editors lost their sense of balance but was it possible to ignore the property boom, do you think it was the newspapers job to talk down the boom or to report what was actually going on i.e sales continued to rise.
As regard the weekly urgings to tell us we have reached rock bottom, we must be reading different papers and certainly not watching the news.
I understand that you may hold my views in contempt but if you stand back and re-read my comments you will clearly see that I said now the buyers hold the cards they can try for a 'bargain' or 'hold off'. If you think there is another 20% drop on the cards then build that into your offer, if you think houses will be going for little or nothing then sit back and take that risk. Its a risk no matter what trying to time a market, but some people will be willing to try now because they want their own home.
I don't mind defending my position on the matter as I feel that I am being open to argument, but I would prefer if we could have a clear debate where we do not twist each others word in a political style mud sling. It offers nothing to anyone and is a bit tiresome.
There can't be a general answer to this because nobody is the same. Right now if you have little or no savings and your job isn't ultra secure then no matter what the deal is you are not in a good position to take that step, but while this is the case for many people there are others who can take advantage of the current market and try to get themselves a good deal providing they want a home.
It is not possible to take a general view because not everyone has the same persepective when it comes to home ownership. For some they will take great pleasure in knowing their neighbour paid more for their home and for others they will want a particular area to raise a family and that time is now, so with all of the variables to consider there will always be people looking to buy although it wont be the right time for all of them.
Do you think that in a property market with rapidly dropping values one should wait?
No. I think MrMans post was very articulate on this.
I have clients who are very specific about where they want to live. If they see the property that they particularly want, at a price they are willing to pay, they should and will buy it.
If it was me, (middle aged, debt free) and I had money, I would buy my dream house now. I would not care about prices ( be they declining or increasing) because I would have no intention of ever moving ever again. As it happens, I don't want to move, ( I can't afford to anyway) my house is not the dream house BUT its very good. In a few years time, someone my age/in my position would simply be unable to borrow because of their age.
Someone younger has a great deal more flexibility.
So, no to your question.
mf
Apart from some trolling, is that not what the general consensus was on the thread anyway?
How much is the house you want worth? As much as you're willing to pay!
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