Is The Demise of Diesel Cars just Slick marketing?
- Thread starter RichInSpirit
- Start date
I believe the argument would be to make owning a diesel car less attractive. This would presumably lead to a reduction in new car purchases of diesels.Can some of the guru's on here who want more taxation on diesel explain how it will lead to a fall in emissions?
I'm looking forward to the responses
How about a different, novel idea....how about just reducing the tax on petrols?
But people would still be driving a car...still probably their diesel or at a push a switch to a petrol model.
Why is the answer to every thing in this country 'more taxation'!
... the ESRI found that applying the same tax on diesel fuel as on petrol fuel would result in a net decrease in harmful emissions and air pollution, while boosting the exchequer to the tune of €500 million...
The reality of the extra revenue...
Yeah it's amazing the government's interest in green measures picks up whenever there's money to be made...
Interestingly the study does balance the drop in diesel consumption versus revenue and increase petrol consumption.
https://www.rte.ie/news/2018/0222/942595-esri_diesel_duty/
But I don't see how the study can justify its claim that there will be lower carbon emissions - given that half of the diesel reduction is just redirected to petrol.
Can some of the guru's on here who want more taxation on diesel explain how it will lead to a fall in emissions?
I'm looking forward to the responses
Covered earlier in the thread, you need to look at the full picture of all elements within exhaust gas and their effect on long-term climate change or more immediate air quality / health issues. While petrols emit far more CO2 than diesels per km, diesels emit far more fine particulate emmissions including NO2 and PAHs per km.
Buses for sure are huge polluters in urban areas as you point out. Why not start there? Because the Government must follow the established routine of bleeding the private motorist first and using the money gathered to ease the pain for train and bus companies and other commercial operators/interests.
Buses are still minor contributors in urban areas. Most of Dublin Bus' fleet of 1014 buses are Euro 5 or 6 compliant, so they're a small part of the problem when there's still more than 50,000 private cars travelling into Dublin on a daily basis. The problems the likes of Paris and London have been having in recent years with dangerously poor air quality isn't down to more buses on the roads.
Dublin Bus looked to trial hybrid buses 4 years ago, but were were refused the $1M funding from the NTA despite the government setting them a target of reducing CO2 emissions by 33% from 2020.
Can some of the guru's on here who want more taxation on diesel explain how it will lead to a fall in emissions?
I'm looking forward to the responses
Read this, section 3.1:
I most certainly hope so. You're not suggesting we put them in gas guzzler petrol Mercs?
Actually, I want them all in hybrids or electric cars.
However, I'd have them in petrol engines, before diesels, if there were no other options.
There's the environment to consider, not just the cost of filling the tank (and the government has the power to reverse that position, if it changes the tax and levies applied to petrol and diesel) !
There are long term cost benefits, not to mention benefits to the environment.
Respectfully suggest you go do a little research on the damage that is being done to the world, or if you are one of those people that only cares about the numbers then go take a look at the financial implications for us missing our 2020 targets, not alone those that follow ten years later.
T McGibney
Registered User
- Messages
- 6,946
How environmentally friendly is it really to duplicate existing and perfectly functional vehicles and heating and lighting infrastructure with new technologies, which involve significant upfront costs both in terms of materials inputs and the financial cost of those inputs?
It wouldn't make financial sense for me to replace my fairly new diesel car with a hybrid or petrol one, just for the supposed "sake of the environment". How can it make sense for a government to do so?
The prospect of fines is not a credible argument in favour of green technologies. That prospect can be resolved very simply, by politicians making them disappear by mutual agreement.
Heating and lighting infrastructure doesn't have to be duplicated to accommodate solar or other alternative energy sources. The tie-ins in many cases can be pretty trivial.
Blackrock1
Registered User
- Messages
- 1,645
sorry if this has been stated before but the future of diesel as the fuel of choice for road vehicles in europe is probably going to be impacted quite shortly by the IMOs 2020 sulphur cap which will effectively mean that most of the worlds ships will have to burn something approximating to diesel instead of fuel oil. That will push up demand and prices.
RichInSpirit
Registered User
- Messages
- 1,185
Driving a medium sized petrol at the moment, a bit heavy on juice. Looked at the repayment's on a newer diesel. The repayments would eat up any fuel cost benefits fairly rapidly.
Looking at an LPG conversation. About €1000 for the conversation. LPG priced 76.9cents at my local pump a few days ago. Unleaded petrol 135.9 cents. So LPG is 56% of the price of unleaded. It would bring my fuel costs down to a similar cost as diesel.
Looking at an LPG conversation. About €1000 for the conversation. LPG priced 76.9cents at my local pump a few days ago. Unleaded petrol 135.9 cents. So LPG is 56% of the price of unleaded. It would bring my fuel costs down to a similar cost as diesel.
T McGibney
Registered User
- Messages
- 6,946
Given how tied the Germans are to their diesels I am surprised by this ruling:
https://www.theguardian.com/environ...ities-can-ban-diesel-cars-to-tackle-pollution
https://www.theguardian.com/environ...ities-can-ban-diesel-cars-to-tackle-pollution
Yes, you're looking at €4-6k for a domestic DHW or PV installation, payback period will vary with scale and occupancy/usage patterns.
PV payback would be a lot shorter if the feed-in tariffs previously paid for excess electricity fed to the grid hadn't been dropped. Without the tariffs I'm not sure PV retrofits are justified, and I suspect many new-build installations are being done to help the building meet the building regs.
Probably only exceeded by the upfront, transportation and ongoing environmental and other costs of wind turbines.
Fine particulates are also introduced into the environment from tyre wear and brake linings (significant quantities) and from biomass combustion. Coarser particulates predominately come from soil/land erosion and mining. Also if the idea is that electric cars are somehow a panacea , if we were all to convert to them, we would have to bring on stream 100% of the time an awful lot more power generation to cope.
There is very little difference between emissions of all sorts from either modern diesel and petrol Euro 6 compliant engines except of course the much higher C02 from petrol engines. A change to electric powered vehicles is just moving the emissions from the tailpipe to the power stations. Be aware that all wind turbines, apart from the dreadful environmental damage they do to local environments, they must be continuously backed up by fossil fueled power stations at all times due to the dreadful intermittency of wind.
The UK's promotion of petrol/electric/hybrid over diesel has resulted in a very negative increase in C02...
CO2 emissions from average UK new car rise for first time since 2000
https://www.theguardian.com/busines...age-uk-new-car-rise-for-first-time-since-2000
