How is the new Covid travel penalties for those on welfare enforced?

Pinoy adventure said:
How they check is when you hand the security (SW inspector) your boarding pass too scan just befour you go into the scanning area/security check.
They scan your boarding pass and your info will come up on there computers which is in front of them.
They do this quiet often too check welfare tourist from certain country's flying in too collect there there payments
Click to expand...
I've never noticed anyone from the department of social protection checking boarding passes at the airport. Most people leaving through Dublin Airport use the self service scanners. People arriving have their passports checked by I don't travel that much now but up until a few years ago I was averaging about 40 outbound flights a year from Dublin. Those arriving go through passport control which is staffed by the Border Management Unit (BMU), which is under the directorship of the Irish Naturalisation and Immigration Service (INIS) of the Department of Justice and Equality. Are you saying those guys check to see if people are on welfare?
 
Just heard Richard Boyd Barrett making a very fair point on the radio.

He's arguing that the SI that allows for the payment of benefits to people travelling overseas to be withheld is explicitly linked to the Department of Foreign Affairs advice and that non-essential travel to countries on the famous Green list is now exempted from the general advice against non-essential travel overseas.

He's right!

From the SI –

"Article 217 of the Social Welfare (Consolidated Claims, Payments and Control) Regulations 2007 ( S.I. No. 142 of 2007 ) is amended in sub-paragraph (i) of paragraph (d) by the substitution of “holiday, in accordance with the Covid-19 General Travel Advisory in operation by the Department of Foreign Affairs,” for “holiday".

From the Department of Foreign Affairs website-

"In accordance with Government policy, which is based on official public health advice, the Department of Foreign Affairs continues to advise against non-essential travel overseas. This includes Great Britain but does not apply to Northern Ireland. It also includes all travel by cruise ship. However, as of 21 July, travel to a very limited set of locations is exempted from this advice. The security status for those locations to which non-essential travel can resume has been changed to ‘normal precautions’ (“green”) rating."
 
Pinoy adventure said:
How they check is when you hand the security (SW inspector) your boarding pass too scan just befour you go into the scanning area/security check.
They scan your boarding pass and your info will come up on there computers which is in front of them.
Click to expand...
I, too, am very curious as to how they get a PPS number from the information on the boarding pass. You're never asked for a PPS number when booking any flight.
 
arandomdirtyman said:
How can you be sure? Where are you getting this from if you don't mind me asking? I'm pretty sure that's the DAA are the ones scaning your boarding pass before you go through security, and Dublin Airport did tweet that they won't give out any information.

Plus if there were trying to grab welfare tourists coming home they could only get them on the outbound that way

Where did you hear about this my good man?
Click to expand...

I've seen it.
DAA do most of the time,but from time too time SW inspectors stand beside them with there laptop computers set up and check a certain amount of people passing true.
If your name is on there database you will be asked if you notified them of your ''holiday'' (which they can check too/it's a requirement too notify them befour you leave).
They will let you proceed with your holiday but once you arrive home you'll have too visit a SW office too sort your stuff out.
They would be mainly checking outbound tourists as this is where the bigger Savings too the state occur.

The same would apply for ports too.
 
Purple said:
I've never noticed anyone from the department of social protection checking boarding passes at the airport. Most people leaving through Dublin Airport use the self service scanners. People arriving have their passports checked by I don't travel that much now but up until a few years ago I was averaging about 40 outbound flights a year from Dublin. Those arriving go through passport control which is staffed by the Border Management Unit (BMU), which is under the directorship of the Irish Naturalisation and Immigration Service (INIS) of the Department of Justice and Equality. Are you saying those guys check to see if people are on welfare?
Click to expand...

All passengers have too scan there boarding pass/scanned PDF on there phones too get into the security check area.
INIS don't check if your on welfare.
 
What precisely is essential / non-essential travel?

Who decides?

Has detailed guidance been drafted?

There must be loads of grey areas?
 
elcato said:
I, too, am very curious as to how they get a PPS number from the information on the boarding pass. You're never asked for a PPS number when booking any flight.
Click to expand...

Of course they don't.

However your flight booking contains name and date of birth which in >99.9% cases will generate a unique match on DSP's database of welfare claimants.
 
Out of curiosity could this also catch people who are making fraudulent claims. I know of a number of self employed individuals (tradesmen) who are still claiming and receiving the payment and have been back working since day 1 of the restrictions being lifted. Some of these also have holidays planned. Could a potential revenue audit be triggered under this new scheme ?
 
Pinoy adventure said:
How they check is when you hand the security (SW inspector) your boarding pass too scan just befour you go into the scanning area/security check.
They scan your boarding pass and your info will come up on there computers which is in front of them.
They do this quiet often too check welfare tourist from certain country's flying in too collect there there payments
Click to expand...
I’ve travelled into and out of Dublin frequently. Both terminals.

In the old terminal, ground floor, on left inside building, you go through metal scanning machines which scan your boarding card, then you queue for hand luggage To go through the X-ray machines. Where is SW officers in that scenario.

In the new terminal you go up the stairs, straight ahead you join a queue, normally to the right, but sometimes to the left, a person scans your boarding card. Then it’s on to get bags x-rayed. Where is SW in that case.
 
Last edited:
NoRegretsCoyote said:
Of course they don't.

However your flight booking contains name and date of birth which in >99.9% cases will generate a unique match on DSP's database of welfare claimants.
Click to expand...
I very much doubt a private company would be allowed to pass on that information to the DSP without specific legislation. In order to act on it in read time they would have to have access to a DSP database and there's no way they would have that access under GDPR.

Pinoy adventure said:
I've seen it.
DAA do most of the time,but from time too time SW inspectors stand beside them with there laptop computers set up and check a certain amount of people passing true.
If your name is on there database you will be asked if you notified them of your ''holiday'' (which they can check too/it's a requirement too notify them befour you leave).
They will let you proceed with your holiday but once you arrive home you'll have too visit a SW office too sort your stuff out.
They would be mainly checking outbound tourists as this is where the bigger Savings too the state occur.

The same would apply for ports too.
Click to expand...
Okay, I've never seen that but I'm not questioning that it happens.
 
Purple said:
I very much doubt a private company would be allowed to pass on that information to the DSP without specific legislation.
Click to expand...

Read the thread!

Purple said:
In order to act on it in read time they would have to have access to a DSP database and there's no way they would have that access under GDPR.
Click to expand...

It's the other way round. The airlines would be obliged to share the info with DSP.

The amount of conspiratorial thinking on this is unreal........
 
Early Riser said:
Yup - makes you wonder who is behind these conspirators.:)
Click to expand...

Sadly it's quite organic.

The google search "ireland information sharing airline social protection" has a top result which links to the legal basis for the information sharing.

Thousands of people: journalists, politicians, but mainly people on twitter weren't able to find this:rolleyes:
 
Statement from the Department of Social Protection on the travel related welfare cuts -
www.thejournal.ie

Department of Social Protection: 'The PUP is not paid to people who leave the country to live elsewhere, or who go on holidays abroad'

The Department said that the vast majority of welfare payments that were ceased were to people who left the country “permanently”.
www.thejournal.ie www.thejournal.ie
Interesting that there is no mention of the fact that the legal instrument that allows for the payment of benefits to people travelling overseas to be withheld is explicitly linked to the Department of Foreign Affairs advice, which now provides that non-essential travel to countries on the famous Green list is now exempted from the general advice against non-essential travel overseas.
 
The government is really making the rules up as they go along - dems the facts.

When, for example, did PUP become conditional on actively seeking work?

What is the definition of essential / non-essential travel?

If you get covid - and thereby are unable to actively seek work - is your benefit stopped?

What is the statutory basis for all of the above?

Presumably, such a list of anomalies could go on and on. The biggest joke is asking poor people to contact the department of social welfare for guidance. No "call centrer" is likely to meaningfully be able to help whilst all the anomalies exist.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top