How is the new Covid travel penalties for those on welfare enforced?
- Thread starter arandomdirtyman
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Cooney said that two “plain clothed Gardaí” looked at his passport and ID for what they said were “immigration purposes”, and was never told that it was related to his social welfare payment. They did not ask for his PPS number.I
Department of Social Protection: 'The PUP is not paid to people who leave the country to live elsewhere, or who go on holidays abroad'
The Department said that the vast majority of welfare payments that were ceased were to people who left the country “permanently”.www.thejournal.ie
He said that the Department of Social Protection knew his flight number, the time he flew, and the airline he flew with.So the Gardai are checking passports and handing over that information to Social Welfare. The article is very confusing.
The Irish Times has a good Q&A on what is rapidly looking like a complete mess -
www.irishtimes.com
Q&A: What’s going on with the Pandemic Unemployment Payment?
New rules mean people travelling may lose benefits and must be ‘genuinely seeking work’
NoRegretsCoyote
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The Department isn't saying that it received data from airline carriers under those regulations-
“As part of its normal control work, the Department of Social Protection carries out compliance inspections at ports and airports throughout the course of the year. Since 2012, social welfare inspectors have had legal powers to carry out these checks as part of the ongoing control and compliance work they are engaged in.
The legal basis for these checks is Section 250 (16) of the Social Welfare Consolidation Act 2005, as amended by Section 17 of the Social Welfare and Pensions Act 2012.
The Department does not have access to travel data, nor does it have access to travel locator forms from any airport or port."
Section 250(16) of the Social Welfare Consolidation Act 2005 provides as follows:-
The Department isn't saying that it received data from airline carriers under those regulations-
“As part of its normal control work, the Department of Social Protection carries out compliance inspections at ports and airports throughout the course of the year. Since 2012, social welfare inspectors have had legal powers to carry out these checks as part of the ongoing control and compliance work they are engaged in.
The legal basis for these checks is Section 250 (16) of the Social Welfare Consolidation Act 2005, as amended by Section 17 of the Social Welfare and Pensions Act 2012.
The Department does not have access to travel data, nor does it have access to travel locator forms from any airport or port."
Section 250(16) of the Social Welfare Consolidation Act 2005 provides as follows:-
| “(16A) For the purposes of ensuring compliance with this Act, a social welfare inspector may attend at any port. | ||
| (16B) Where, while attending at any port for the purposes of ensuring compliance with this Act, a social welfare inspector— | ||
| (a) has reasonable grounds to believe that there has been a contravention of this Act, and | ||
| (b) is accompanied by— | ||
| (i) a member of the Garda Síochána, | ||
| (ii) an officer of Customs and Excise, or | ||
| (iii) an immigration officer, | ||
| the social welfare inspector concerned may, on production of his or her certificate of appointment— | ||
| (i) question and make enquiries of a person who is a passenger at the port and is preparing to embark, or is embarking, from, or has landed in, the State in relation to any matter that concerns compliance with this Act, and | ||
| (ii) request such person to produce to that inspector any documents or other information as that inspector may reasonably require for the purposes of establishing the identity, and, where appropriate, the habitual residence, of that person.”, |
NoRegretsCoyote
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Well, to add to the saga, there were suggestions on the Joe Duffy show this afternoon that DSP were not in fact acting within the above powers in obtaining the personal data (i.e. they didn't have reasonable grounds to believe there was a contravention of the Act and didn't produce an inspection card).
Oh good God, the cibil libertees guys are now ringing Joe Duffy
No, the caller wasn't a civil liberties type.
He was travelling to Romania with his family to visit a terminally ill relative of his wife and when they returned to Ireland the DSP turned off their child benefit payments.
I'd recommend listening back to the interview on the player if you get a chance - I thought he was very impressive.
Heard MM on radio this evening saying vast majority who had their Covid payments stopped were people who had permanently left the country..........
So nothing to do with people taking a holiday. He also said he would like a review of people living here who have had their payments stopped.
So nothing to do with people taking a holiday. He also said he would like a review of people living here who have had their payments stopped.
I heard that as well and thought it was interesting.
Our new Taoiseach does love his reviews ...
Have you read the link you posted?
"The Minister for Justice, Equality and Defence, Mr. Alan Shatter, T.D., has signed Regulations transposing into Irish law an EU Directive requiring air carriers to provide advance passenger data to Irish Immigration authorities for the purposes of improving border control and combating illegal immigration.
The Regulations will apply to all inbound flights to Ireland from outside the EU and to all passengers on those flights."
It seems it is DSP staff who are doing the checking, not airline or airport staff. As I pointed out there is no way the airline of airport staff would be allowed to collect PPS numbers, or any other information not mandated by law, without breaching the GDPR. Given that plenty of airlines which are based outside the EU fly from Irish Airports there is no way that they would be allowed to collect sensitive personal data on EU citizens on behalf of an EU government. I'm not basing that on any conspiracy theory but rather the excellent personal data protection and privacy laws which are in place within the EU.
NoRegretsCoyote
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Yes I did. It was in the context of people saying that there was no legal basis and before the examples on Liveline which seem to have concerned people going to EU destinations. It appears there is another legal basis anyway, not surprisingly.
There are lawful reasons for transfer of personal data, not least in the context of law enforcement.
Okay, so you know that your link had nothing to do with this issue. Why did you post it?
There may well be lawful reasons for a transfer of personal data but the gathering and holding of that data by companies outside the EU is the issue, specifically under the Integrity and Confidentiality requirements, as well as the Accountability requirements, of the GDPR.
Minister to sign a new regulation allowing those in receipt of PUP to travel to green list countries without having their payment suspended.
www.rte.ie
What a fiasco.
Review finds 85 cases may have lost PUP due to holiday
The Department of Social Protection said it has identified 85 people who lost their Pandemic Unemployment Payment as a result of holidaying abroad, but may be entitled to it back.
What a fiasco.
Bring back the Blueshirts!Minister to sign a new regulation allowing those in receipt of PUP to travel to green list countries without having their payment suspended.
Review finds 85 cases may have lost PUP due to holiday
The Department of Social Protection said it has identified 85 people who lost their Pandemic Unemployment Payment as a result of holidaying abroad, but may be entitled to it back.
What a fiasco.
NoRegretsCoyote
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No you didn't. Have you read your own link?
The airlines collect passport and citizenship information for non-EU citizens travelling to the EU. All of that information is already contained within the passport. Crucially it is collected under the requirements of an EU directive. They do not collect social security information on EU citizens travelling within the EU.
That's so funny. What a mess. It was always the case that people on the dole could go on holiday so I don't see the issue. I also don't see why they should be treated any differently to any other Irish person as regards where they go. Why can someone not on PUP go to places not on the Green list but those on it cannot. That's discrimation.Minister to sign a new regulation allowing those in receipt of PUP to travel to green list countries without having their payment suspended.
Review finds 85 cases may have lost PUP due to holiday
The Department of Social Protection said it has identified 85 people who lost their Pandemic Unemployment Payment as a result of holidaying abroad, but may be entitled to it back.
What a fiasco.
People who use their own money are allowed go anywhere. People who are relying on handouts from the government are subject to rules to get that payment.