Diesel vs Hybrid

As the OP thanks all for your contribution

  1. Is Diesel finished in the next 3yrs?
  2. Is hybrid a gimmick?
  3. Are the current Elec too early (im not an early adopter usually)

My concern is buying a premium car now ..I don't want to find its a complete dinosaur in 3yrs (usual depreciation on this type of car accepted and expected)...is one of the 3 options likely to fair better than others?

If I went PCP route does the 'future value' protect against dinosaur ownership?
 
I like the idea of a plug-in hybrid.

e.g. BMW 530E or Volvo XC90

Nice to be able to cover circa 40km on battery power alone but to also have a petrol engine to fall back on.

I’d say one would spend most of one’s time using the battery but it’d still be nice not to have to worry about range anxiety or not being able to travel to Kerry or Donegal easily.
 
Gordon Gekko said:
I like the idea of a plug-in hybrid.

e.g. BMW 530E or Volvo XC90

Nice to be able to cover circa 40km on battery power alone but to also have a petrol engine to fall back on.

I’d say one would spend most of one’s time using the battery but it’d still be nice not to have to worry about range anxiety or not being able to travel to Kerry or Donegal easily.
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plug ins are a cod , a good idea in theory but will die out shortly imo

worst of both worlds complexity of two drive trains and a thirsty petrol when the electric range is exhausted
 
No a con job. Running on ICE alone they emit up to 2.5 times the level of pollutants of an ordinary oil or petrol burner. The EverReady part has too short a range to be useful for anything other than perhaps the traffic-lights grand prix. Either throw all the investment at full scale electric vehicles and the infrastructure to power them OR make fossil fuel vehicles less polluting. These crappy hybrids are neither one thing nor the other.
 
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tom_tom said:
As the OP thanks all for your contribution

  1. Is Diesel finished in the next 3yrs?
  2. Is hybrid a gimmick?
  3. Are the current Elec too early (im not an early adopter usually)
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1. Not finished in 3 years no. Main concern would be the secondhand value plummets as taxes ramp up and people start thinking that petrol/diesels have no future (already beginning as evidenced by threads like this). That will likely take longer than 3 years though.

2. Yes mostly. If you want to help improve air quality/environment and can afford it go full zero emission.

3. At some price points they are (eg. €5k secondhand Leaf will have very poor range), but all the EVs at the price you are looking have great range and a significantly better driving experience in virtually every way to their petrol/diesel equivalent.
 
I looked at a 530e recently. The range on the battery is only 35Km but most urban journeys are less than that so in theory it’s a great idea.

The performance is excellent and the car drives much like the standard ICE version.



The downsides are;

I would have to charge is twice a day. That seems like lots of hassle.

The boot is tiny, 410L (the 3 series has 480L) versus 530L in the ICE version, which at that is smaller than its competitors.

It’s expensive and I don’t know what could go wrong and how much it could cost.
 
Zenith63 said:
a significantly better driving experience in virtually every way to their petrol/diesel equivalent.
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I like EV's and I think and hope they are the future but at present there is no way that they are a better driving experience. Better acceleration but other than that they don't come close.
 
tom_tom said:
Don't know much about cars ...I have a discretionary car allowance ..can simply keep the cash but
after years of hard work and frugal living have decided I'd like use it for a premium car( 60-70K mark)
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Back to the OP's question. If you have €60-€70K to spend on a car buy one that is 1-2 years old and cost €90K-€110K new. Never buy a new car. It is a complete waste of money.
 
Purple said:
Back to the OP's question. If you have €60-€70K to spend on a car buy one that is 1-2 years old and cost €90K-€110K new. Never buy a new car. It is a complete waste of money.
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someone will have to buy it new for him/her to buy it 1-2 years old.
 
Purple said:
I like EV's and I think and hope they are the future but at present there is no way that they are a better driving experience. Better acceleration but other than that they don't come close.
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Depends on what you are comparing it to, if i compare my current EV to my previous diesel SUV its:

A) Faster
B) Quieter
C) more comfortable (air suspension but thats more of a spec thing)
D) Handles better

I cant think of one thing that was better about the diesel to be honest apart from the range which is more of a mental thing than anything else.
 
Purple said:
I looked at a 530e recently. The range on the battery is only 35Km but most urban journeys are less than that so in theory it’s a great idea.

The performance is excellent and the car drives much like the standard ICE version.



The downsides are;

I would have to charge is twice a day. That seems like lots of hassle.

The boot is tiny, 410L (the 3 series has 480L) versus 530L in the ICE version, which at that is smaller than its competitors.

It’s expensive and I don’t know what could go wrong and how much it could cost.
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Yes you have outlined the reasons they arent really the thing, you need to charge daily (at least), the boot is compromised, you have two drive trains to go wrong and in a pretty short space of time no one will be making them, they are a stopgap.
 
Purple said:
I like EV's and I think and hope they are the future but at present there is no way that they are a better driving experience. Better acceleration but other than that they don't come close.
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Sorry when I say driving experience there I don't mean performance driving, I just mean for the average Joe plodding around like I do or I guess the OP here does. In the price range OP is looking EVs are quieter, smoother (no gear shifts, smooth torque curve), cleaner (no oil/petrol/diesel to be dealing with), more responsive (more torque at low speeds where most of us drive), you can pre-heat/cool the car from an app in the morning and most are loaded with the best self-driving/driver-assist features out there.

To be clear I enjoy racing petrol cars and motorcycles, I'm by no means a purist here, but as an average Joe driver I cannot come up with a single driving experience benefit of petrol/diesel cars for the average Joe in this price range living in this country, but correct me if I'm wrong!
 
I hated driving automatics and much prefer manual. Is driving an EV comparable to the traditional automatics in performance or is it better? It sounds like they are much more responsive than ICE automatics but would be good to hear from those that have driven both.
 
Ceist Beag said:
I hated driving automatics and much prefer manual. Is driving an EV comparable to the traditional automatics in performance or is it better? It sounds like they are much more responsive than ICE automatics but would be good to hear from those that have driven both.
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Its different, there is only one forward gear in the majority of EVs so sloppy auto gear change isnt an issue and the torque is instant, there isnt a regular ice car that responds like an EV in terms of acceleration or access to power.

im no zealot either i have owned bmw m3s and other performance cars, but for an every day run around an EV cant be beat if the packaging works for you in terms of space etc
 
Blackrock1 said:
Depends on what you are comparing it to, if i compare my current EV to my previous diesel SUV its:
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Fair enough. I hate all SUV's and think they give a horrible driving experience. It's like driving a Transet but not as much fun. If you need it for offroad and for some reason can't use an X-Drive BMW, Audi Quattro etc then okay but one but they are smaller inside, have bugger all boot space, don't handle well, are expensive to run and are an environmental disaster.
If you drive on roads all the time there is zero reason to own one.
 
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Ceist Beag said:
I hated driving automatics and much prefer manual. Is driving an EV comparable to the traditional automatics in performance or is it better? It sounds like they are much more responsive than ICE automatics but would be good to hear from those that have driven both.
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EV's have much more torque and speed of delivery than either automatics or manual cars. No gears either so steadier delivery of torque
 
Purple said:
That and the fact that half the Carbon Footprint of your cars occurs before the engine is turned on, more if you drive low mileage and run a small ICE car. This has been covered extensively elsewhere but suffice to say I'm not a fan of outsourcing our pollution to the poorest people on earth.
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That is a valid counterpoint to EVs. There is this myth that they are "clean". They certainly are not in the production phase anyway. From what I understand there are emissions in battery production, and, extracting lithium uses a massive amount of water. So it is not true to say EVs are clean. That said, I'm hoping to convert to EV in the next 2 - 3 years
 
Zenith63 said:
Sorry when I say driving experience there I don't mean performance driving, I just mean for the average Joe plodding around like I do or I guess the OP here does. In the price range OP is looking EVs are quieter, smoother (no gear shifts, smooth torque curve), cleaner (no oil/petrol/diesel to be dealing with), more responsive (more torque at low speeds where most of us drive), you can pre-heat/cool the car from an app in the morning and most are loaded with the best self-driving/driver-assist features out there.

To be clear I enjoy racing petrol cars and motorcycles, I'm by no means a purist here, but as an average Joe driver I cannot come up with a single driving experience benefit of petrol/diesel cars for the average Joe in this price range living in this country, but correct me if I'm wrong!
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I used to travel a lot so I rented cars nearly every week. Over the course of a few years I drove dozens of different cars. How they corner, how they feel on different road surfaces etc all contributes to the driving experience. I've only driven a few EV's and nothing in the €70K bracket but in normal driving conditions I found them dull and boring. Dull like VW's kind of dull; well built and all that but just disappointing to drive relative to say a BMW or even a Ford.
 
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