Russian Foreign Policy

odyssey06 said:
Ireland will not contribute financially to weapons for Ukraine, after the EU announced it would close its airspace to Russian airlines, fund weapons purchases to Ukraine and ban some pro-Kremlin media outlets.

The country has a longstanding policy of military neutrality.

A Department of Foreign Affairs spokesperson told PA news agency: “The EU Foreign Affairs Council will approve a package of assistance to the Ukrainian armed forces consisting of both lethal and non-lethal military equipment.



“Instead, we will provide a corresponding contribution to the provision of non-lethal support. Our understanding is that a number of Member States, including Austria and Malta, are likely to take the same approach.”
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The Russian economy is going to collapse tomorrow. This will get worse before it gets better. We have equipment that they need: Javelin, SRAAW, RBS 70's. We have a policy of military neutrality that no government ever defined and no citizen ever voted for, past or present. A mealy-mouthed cop out.

Neutral Sweden on the other hand:

Sweden has announced it will send military equipment and other aid to Ukraine.

Announcing the move, Prime Minister Magdalena Andersson said it would be the first time Sweden had sent weapons to a country in conflict since the Soviet invasion of Finland in 1939.

She said the shipments would include 5,000 single-use anti-tank launchers, 5,000 pieces of body armour, and 5,000 helmets as well as 135,000 ration packs.

"My conclusion is now that our security is best served by us supporting Ukraine's ability to defend itself against Russia," Andersson said. (Source: BBC)
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Neutral Finland:

The Government also granted Estonia a licence to re-export to Ukraine artillery guns and their ammunition, which Estonia had previously purchased from Finland.
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Finland sends additional aid to Ukraine - Finnish Government

valtioneuvosto.fi valtioneuvosto.fi
 
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Sweden and Finland attended the recent NATO meeting. Sweden has a significant military and Finland could well join NATO as a result of this crisis. Theirs is an armed neutrality.
 
odyssey06 said:
Sweden and Finland attended the recent NATO meeting. Sweden has a significant military and Finland could well join NATO as a result of this crisis. Theirs is an armed neutrality.
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There’s no such thing as an unarmed neutrality.
 
Purple said:
We aren’t neutral, we are unaligned. We don’t have armed forces to deploy but we are a rich Western country whose security is underpinned by the British, Americans and NATO. It is hypocritical and cowardly to benefit from that investment and risk of human life by others without even contributing financially or backing those who we ask to fight on our behalf to defend our freedom with our words or political capital.

Sometimes it’s about right and wrong.
Sometimes you have to pick a side.
This is one of those times.
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Neutral or unaligned - there's no difference except for contrived semantics. and words like "cowardly" are not relevant to us. We are either militarily involved or not militarily involved. There is no "in between" and consequently, we are not militarily obliged to enter any situation. OK! We love Ukraine and we hope the situation there will be resolved asap. We can't choose for whose benefit/loss we can change our neutrality/unalignment. Forget about "sometimes" and our rights and wrongs depend on where we sit and we don't have to pick any side in which we must send military support. We are peace keepers, not belligerents. That does not mean we are deserting countries like Ukraine.
 
Leper said:
Neutral or unaligned - there's no difference except for contrived semantics.
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They are completely different. We are unable to defend ourselves so we are not neutral.
Leper said:
and words like "cowardly" are not relevant to us.
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They are not relevant for those who have no sense of right or wrong, no ethics and no basic human compassion.
Leper said:
We are either militarily involved or not militarily involved. There is no "in between" and consequently, we are not militarily obliged to enter any situation.
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Of corse there is an in between. We contribute to the EU budget and the EU itself is spending money on weapons so we are already militarily involved. We are cowards in that we won’t directly back that EU position.
Leper said:
OK! We love Ukraine and we hope the situation there will be resolved asap. We can't choose for whose benefit/loss we can change our neutrality/unalignment. Forget about "sometimes" and our rights and wrongs depend on where we sit and we don't have to pick any side in which we must send military support.
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We don’t have to, we can continue to be cowards, we can continue to be hypocrites. It’s what we should do that I’m talking about.
Leper said:
We are peace keepers, not belligerents.
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A belligerent is someone who attacks someone else. The person who goes to the aid of the victim is not a belligerent.
Leper said:
That does not mean we are deserting countries like Ukraine.
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That’s exactly what it means. It is shameful, despicable.
 
I wonder if we’ll accept refugees from Ukraine or we will turn them away like we did the Jews fleeing the Nazis. After all, we are neutral…
I presume we’ll be safe from the fallout if this turns nuclear, after all we are neutral.
 
Leper, I'm looking forward to seeing your letter to the Ukrainians, try the editor of the Kyiv Independent Olga Rudenko olga.kyivindependent at gmail.com.

Ma'am,

Leper said:
We are either militarily involved or not militarily involved. There is no "in between" and consequently, we are not militarily obliged to enter any situation. OK! We love Ukraine and we hope the situation there will be resolved asap. We can't choose for whose benefit/loss we can change our neutrality/unalignment. Forget about "sometimes" and our rights and wrongs depend on where we sit and we don't have to pick any side in which we must send military support. We are peace keepers, not belligerents. That does not mean we are deserting countries like Ukraine.
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Best regards,

(Some of) the people of Ireland
 
Duke of Marmalade said:
he whole history of Irish corporation tax and the EU has been one of cute hoorism - and more thanks (I mean it ) to Charlie for bequeathing us that culture.
It started with a differential tax of 12.5% for IFSC companies and 40% for domestic companies.
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Not true, but I don't think it is appropriate to discuss it at length on this thread.

Purple said:
I’m a child of the 70’s. This is, by far, the most significant political/military event of my lifetime.
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I am hoping that the Russian people themselves will remove him. He appears to have enjoyed popularity, though it is hard to know for sure, but I think Ukraine will be his Bridge Too Far. There is growing condemnation in Russia.
 
Purple said:
I’m a child of the 70’s. This is, by far, the most significant political/military event of my lifetime.
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It has only just begun and no doubt the Russian army will militarily overwhelm the people of the Ukraine in the short term. It's only then the resistance movements in Ukraine will start to kick in (and mainly passive resistance). Putin will then be on his way to being Communists greatest loser and as Sophrosyne suggested above his own will turn on him and Russia will lose more of its states. The faster this happens the better for Ukraine and Russia.
 
Duke of Marmalade said:
@cremeegg I agree that our selfish interests are to hide behind NATO's shield and save the dosh. Similarly, we should not be top of the class in fighting climate change, we can't make any difference and should piggy back off the big guys.
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Its not only about saving the dosh
Purple said:
We aren’t neutral, we are unaligned. We don’t have armed forces to deploy but we are a rich Western country whose security is underpinned by the British, Americans and NATO. It is hypocritical and cowardly to benefit from that investment and risk of human life by others without even contributing financially or backing those who we ask to fight on our behalf to defend our freedom with our words or political capital.

Sometimes it’s about right and wrong.
Sometimes you have to pick a side.
This is one of those times.
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You and your sons and daughters are welcome to travel to Ukraine to fight for what you believe in. I will admire you for it.

I have no intention of giving my life for Ukraine and I would discourage my children from doing so.

Now when are you off, or it is just talk.
 
cremeegg said:
You and your sons and daughters are welcome to travel to Ukraine to fight for what you believe in. I will admire you for it.

I have no intention of giving my life for Ukraine and I would discourage my children from doing so.

Now when are you off, or it is just talk.
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Which country is sending their sons? (Nobody sends their daughters into combat roles)
We are in a position to send arms and we are choosing not to do so in order to remain neutral in a battle between democracy and authoritarianism. If anyone attacked us we'd expect the British and other EU forces to risk their sons to protect us.
 
Purple said:
Which country is sending their sons? (Nobody sends their daughters into combat roles)
We are in a position to send arms and we are choosing not to do so in order to remain neutral in a battle between democracy and authoritarianism. If anyone attacked us we'd expect the British and other EU forces to risk their sons to protect us.
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We don't have decent equipment for our Irish army and have treated Irish Army personnel with disdain and I'm sure the Ukraine army can get along without Irish military aid. Furthermore, I don't expect anybody to come to our aid even if we were invaded.

I am involved with the local hurling club at under age level. It was frightening this week to hear young Irish girls and boys talking about the threat of another war in europe. Our schools have many eastern european students and this fear will spread.
 
Leper said:
We don't have decent equipment for our Irish army and have treated Irish Army personnel with disdain
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True. So what?
Leper said:
and I'm sure the Ukraine army can get along without Irish military aid.
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Yes, as long as other countries do the heavy lifting for us.
Leper said:
Furthermore, I don't expect anybody to come to our aid even if we were invaded.
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You would though, we all would.
Leper said:
I am involved with the local hurling club at under age level. It was frightening this week to hear young Irish girls and boys talking about the threat of another war in europe. Our schools have many eastern european students and this fear will spread.
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Reality can be frightening. That doesn't make it any less real.
If you train any children with Ukrainian family you can let them know that you're happy to let their family die without lifting a finger to help because, like, we're neutral.
 
Purple said:
True. So what?

Yes, as long as other countries do the heavy lifting for us.

You would though, we all would.

Reality can be frightening. That doesn't make it any less real.
If you train any children with Ukrainian family you can let them know that you're happy to let their family die without lifting a finger to help because, like, we're neutral.
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A little OTT Purple - let's keep the discussion on an even keel, I don't think anybody is happy to let anybody die. You might feel like amending your post. For the record we have several Ukranian members and others from the rest of eastern europe also.
 
Leper I don't think anyone on here is suggesting we send an army anywhere. What I'm reading on here and I agree with it, is that there are other ways of aligning with other countries in a way that does not affect our neutrality but which very much tells the world what we think of this war. We could and should have contributed to the financial package to purchase and send weapons to Ukraine. I think it is really poor that we did not do so.
It was heartbreaking to watch Ukranian people leaving these shores to return home to fight. We should be doing more to show solidarity with them.
 
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