What will happen when/if the PService deal is rejected?

[thedaras]

Oh right so the teacher who does a drama class/basketball/tennis etc after school , doesn't get paid for doing it?

This is news to me..

 

[Purple]

Which probably covers insurances, facilities, and whatever, it doesn't mean it goes into the teacher's pocket.

When we pay for after school activities we make the cheque out to the teacher, not the school.

 

[thedaras]

We also make the cheque out to the teacher and not the school..and are told not to give the money into the school secretary or the child's teacher but to the teacher who is actually running the after school activity.

 

[Complainer]

Complainer, the references to losses were according to 2008 accounts.

So were the references to the 'war chests';

Siptu, the largest trade union in Ireland, which claims 252,000 members, has an 'Industrial Contingency Fund' of €16m. In addition, it has a 'General Fund' of €16m, much of which would be available in the event of a declaration of industrial warfare. At the end of last year Siptu transferred €1.5m from its general fund to the 'Industrial Contingency Fund'.

 

[Purple]

€16’000’000 is a lot of money but if they pay strike pay of, say €250 per week that’s 64’000 weeks so if 25% of their members go out on strike they can only pay them for one week.

 

[Caveat]

OK Complainer - but it doesn't actually matter.

Money comes out of one fund, into another, cash diverted etc etc

They lost a lot of money via backfiring investments despite criticising the same practices themselves. That's the only point I'm making.

 

[Purple]

OK Complainer - but it doesn't actually matter.

Money comes out of one fund, into another, cash diverted etc etc

They lost a lot of money via backfiring investments despite criticising the same practices themselves. That's the only point I'm making.

They have €32 million now and lost €2.8 in 2008. It’s a big loss but it hardly puts them on their knees.
That said it doesn’t take away from your point.

 

[csirl]

When we pay for after school activities we make the cheque out to the teacher, not the school.

This is unusual. I'm involved in a voluntary capacity in sport and it would be highly unusual for a coach of a school team to be paid directly by the parents. If payments have to be made by parents, it is usually to the school or to the local or national sports organisation. And coaches would usually be volunteers. In cases where a coach is paid - maybe is a full time schools coach provided by the sporting organisation, the cheque would usually be made out to the sports organisation who in turn would pay the coach as an employee. Its bad financial practice to have cheques made out to the individual.

Are you referring to actual official school activities or activities run by private individuals (self employed) who rent out school premises out of hours?

P.S. the sport I'm involved in provides the coaching free of charge to the schools/children. Coaches are volunteers and equipment is paid for by the national governing body (partially funded by Irish Sports Council grants). This would be normal for most sports.

 

[Complainer]

They lost a lot of money via backfiring investments despite criticising the same practices themselves.

I'm not clear on what you mean by 'criticising the same practices'. I don't recall any broad union criticisms of investing in equity funds. Perhaps you could clarify?

 

[thedaras]

Not at all unusual where my school is concerned.I have been paying the teacher directly since the kids were in junior infants..
The teacher teaches in the school,actual school activities,not run by a self employed person.
He/she sends out a note in the childs bag, and we are told to give the money to him/her not to the office or the childs teacher..I don't see any problem with this..

 

[Purple]

This is unusual. I'm involved in a voluntary capacity in sport and it would be highly unusual for a coach of a school team to be paid directly by the parents. If payments have to be made by parents, it is usually to the school or to the local or national sports organisation. And coaches would usually be volunteers. In cases where a coach is paid - maybe is a full time schools coach provided by the sporting organisation, the cheque would usually be made out to the sports organisation who in turn would pay the coach as an employee. Its bad financial practice to have cheques made out to the individual.

Are you referring to actual official school activities or activities run by private individuals (self employed) who rent out school premises out of hours?

P.S. the sport I'm involved in provides the coaching free of charge to the schools/children. Coaches are volunteers and equipment is paid for by the national governing body (partially funded by Irish Sports Council grants). This would be normal for most sports.

I’m talking about after school activities such as art, computers etc. They are provided by one of the teachers and cheques are made out to the teacher concerned. None of my children play sport after school in the school. They do GAA, swimming and rugby but none of them are linked to their school.

 

[csirl]

Not at all unusual where my school is concerned.I have been paying the teacher directly since the kids were in junior infants..
The teacher teaches in the school,actual school activities,not run by a self employed person.
He/she sends out a note in the childs bag, and we are told to give the money to him/her not to the office or the childs teacher..I don't see any problem with this..

But this isnt being paid to the teacher? Its being collected on behalf of the school - the teacher doesnt get paid.

 

[thedaras]

Why ,if the teacher doesn't get paid would the cheque be made out to the teacher not the school?

Like for example for school books etc,they tell us to make the cheque out to the school.

This is for after school activity's that the teacher runs himself after school, a few of the teachers would run classes after school,like basket ball, art, tennis,guitar, French,All are teachers of the subjects in the school and the classes start directly after school.

I have to say it is a revelation to me to hear that the fees go to the school when the cheques are made out to the teacher running it!!

I'm really surprised,so surprised in fact that I find it very hard to believe!
I will ask my sister, she runs an after school class.

 

[Complainer]

It may well vary by schools. In some schools, the people running the activities are just renting a room from the school, so they take the money themselves, pay some rent to the school and keep the profits. In other cases, the activities are organised by the school, who collect the money themselves and pay the instructors.

 

[Purple]

It may well vary by schools. In some schools, the people running the activities are just renting a room from the school, so they take the money themselves, pay some rent to the school and keep the profits. In other cases, the activities are organised by the school, who collect the money themselves and pay the instructors.

I agree... and I’m sure they are all declaring the income in their tax return, just as they do for grinds they give in their home or the homes of pupils.

 

[Latrade]

Oh right so the teacher who does a drama class/basketball/tennis etc after school , doesn't get paid for doing it?

This is news to me..

I've never paid a teacher directly, so I can't comment. In addition, there is no indication the two teachers in the example were paid directly for their time either.

 

[thedaras]

I don't recall saying the two teachers in the example were paid directly!!
I find it very hard to believe that teachers do this for nothing even if the cheque is made out to the school.

In addition the classes are not cheap, nor subsidized,so the school would be creaming it if they got all the money..No, sorry I don't believe they get nothing for it.

 

[cork]

Why don't people report teachers to the Revenue?

They are also giving grinds etc.

 

[Latrade]

I don't recall saying the two teachers in the example were paid directly!!

But surely that was the point under discussion: the two teachers who decided to stop the activities? In the same way we have to trust your example of your sister with the information you provided, we have to take the same view with this example of two teachers who've put a lot in for no extra pay (as far as I'm aware with friends it isn't paid work and is voluntary through work...though the schools in some cases insist it goes ahead or atleast put pressure on teachers to form these groups) and have decided to stop doing the extra stuff.

The ultimate point again being that there are some who do the minimum and reap the benefits in all areas and all sectors, but there are many in all areas and all sectors who do the extra and end up getting penalised on the basis of the minority.

I'm not arguing against the need for cuts, I nailed those colours to mast early on, they have to be made. It doesn't mean I can't sympathise with those who face cuts or even feel that the portraying them all as lazy, workshy jobsworths is an incorrect generalisation.

The example given of the two teachers, I can fully sympathise with how they must be feeling especially if it's assumed that they enjoy and reap the same as the example of your sister. And that's it.

 

[csirl]

As a general rule, most teachers involved in official school sports teams are volunteers. Same may not apply to commericially run afterschool activities.