What will happen when/if the PService deal is rejected?

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thedaras

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Where does it leave the PS workers?

Will the government cut their wages again?

Will the government find other ways to get the 3bn?

How will/should they do this?

Talking to a PS worker today and she said,she felt that with the deal looking like it will be rejected she felt very unsure of her future.

That if the deal goes through she at least could have some sense of security.
Because if the economy doesn't recovery in the next four years ,without the deal,they would be facing more pay cuts anyway.
 
I dont believe there is any security in this deal for PS workers and if we/they think there is we/they really are fooling ourselves/themselves.

Wages will be cut again in the next budget, the Government and Brian Cowen himself cant even guarantee against this not happening, because it will happen. We will need to find €3bn in cuts and another €3bn next year and then €2bn the following year, where will those cuts come from?

I would also imagine that taxes will be looked at in a big way as well.

There is also a false promise that the Government might look at restoring the pay cuts to the lower paid next year but that wont happen
 
Public Sector workers are deluded. They are little Irelanders failing to look beyond this country. They could not be bothered with Greece or the lack of worldwide financial regualtion.

Let them strike - see where it gets them.
 
I believe this latest agreement means nothing.
All it will do, if it's agreed, is stop strikes for a few months until the next budget.

There's nothing in it for the workers. They're going to get more pay cuts regardless.
 
Our public finances can’t really be that bad, our green government just announced that they will give a grant of € 5,000 to each of the expected 10,000 electronic cars that will be sold here this year, that’s a whopping € 50,000,000.

If we have money for that kind of effort, we for sure must have money to pay our underpaid, overworked and misunderstood public sector workers.

As long as our state wants to deliver as much services as possible via the public sector, Quango’s or state owned companies we will never have a true reform in the sector.

If the pay deal is rejected the government sooner or later will find itself in the same situation as Greece, no money to pay anything with extreme high rates for borrowing.

The only way than is to hike taxes again (both direct and in-direct), try to increase borrowing and continue to do management by accident as they have done for the last couple of years.

What is required is a discussion about what services we want our state to deliver, a flexible way of sourcing such services and a fair deal for such sources.
 
The agreement precludes from any form of industrial action being taken by PS workers in respect to any part of the agreement which can include more pay cuts
 
RonanC said:
Wages will be cut again in the next budget, the Government and Brian Cowen himself cant even guarantee against this not happening, because it will happen. We will need to find €3bn in cuts and another €3bn next year and then €2bn the following year, where will those cuts come from?
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If this deal is accepted, I don't believe there will be pay cuts in this year's budget. Government have already indicated that they wanted savings of €500 million from the pay bill for next year and are confident they can achieve this through reforms rather than pay cuts.
In other years who knows, but is it not better to try and minimise pay cuts by trying to reform the service? If PS pay is cut again this year, they will not be reversed, even if Fine Gael get into power.
 
DublinTexas said:
Our public finances can’t really be that bad, our green government just announced that they will give a grant of € 5,000 to each of the expected 10,000 electronic cars that will be sold here this year, that’s a whopping € 50,000,000.
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I assume that like the car scrappage scheme the VAT and VRT kickbacks to the Exchequer will offset the grant. Not that I agree with either scheme btw.
 
ivuernis said:
I assume that like the car scrappage scheme the VAT and VRT kickbacks to the Exchequer will offset the grant. Not that I agree with either scheme btw.
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No VRT on electric cars either. VAT wont be making up for it either because the 10,000 cars would otherwise be petrol engines, nobody really is going to buy an electronic card in additon to a petrol engine. So in fact the loss of VRT is to be added to this amount.
 
DublinTexas said:
No VRT on electric cars either. VAT wont be making up for it either because the 10,000 cars would otherwise be petrol engines, nobody really is going to buy an electronic card in additon to a petrol engine. So in fact the loss of VRT is to be added to this amount.
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I stand corrected, just read the PR. Certainly the potential €50m could be spent better elsewhere (or perhaps not borrowed as is more likely the case).
 
MY God! Such wastage in this climate is just negligent.

Typical of what we have had to put with for many years,e-voting anyone...
 
from talking to my colleagues who are in the union those who have mortgages and/or young families are planning on voting yes. The one's who have their mortgages paid will vote no, sadly there are a lot more of the no people where I work so it unfortunately won't be passed. In saying that a lot of people cannot afford an all out strike so maybe there is hope that they will accept it. I hope it is accepted.

What happens if some unions accept it and others don't?
 
umop3p!sdn said:
I believe this latest agreement means nothing.
All it will do, if it's agreed, is stop strikes for a few months until the next budget.

There's nothing in it for the workers. They're going to get more pay cuts regardless.
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Thats the point, part of this deal means that the PS cannot strike for the next 4 years if it is agreed, therefore the government can throw anything at them and tough it will have to be agreed to. Fair enough no more pay cuts but that doesn't mean there won't be another pension levy, higher taxes or other ways of cutting the 3bn from the public pay. Whats the point in agreeing? there is nothing in it for them, before this there were no talks of compulsary redundancies, now suddenly that seems to be part of the deal also? And if they don't agree, the threat of another 8% pay cut is on the cards. So is this actually a deal? seems more like being dictated to tbh!
 
DublinTexas said:
What is required is a discussion about what services we want our state to deliver, a flexible way of sourcing such services and a fair deal for such sources.
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I agree, but I wonder would we ever find agreement on what services we want? The State has a long history of poor delivery of services, and still the Irish people seem to want the government to do everything for them, regardless of how poorly it does this job.
 
I stand corrected, just read the PR. Certainly the potential €50m could be spent better elsewhere (or perhaps not borrowed as is more likely the case).
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How could it be better spent?
Flushed down the toilet like the rest of our money and given to FF/nama/banks? That seems to be the other option.

I found it quite surprising that some of our money wasn't going to go into this black hole.
 
Agreement on this deal is irrevelant. A government with at most 2 years left to run cannot make promises that last 4 years.

My feeling is that discussions over this will drag on, with some isolated incidents of individual groups of low paid public servants causing low level disruption from time to time and before we know it, there'll be an election and a new government in place.

What I cant understand is why compulsory redundancies are not being advocated by some sections of the PS. A lot of the PS workers I know are complaining about having to take pay cuts to keep some workers with no meaningful work to do, in jobs - would rather that PS workers with no work are laid off.
 
csirl said:
What I cant understand is why compulsory redundancies are not being advocated by some sections of the PS. A lot of the PS workers I know are complaining about having to take pay cuts to keep some workers with no meaningful work to do, in jobs - would rather that PS workers with no work are laid off.
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Where are the public sector workers 'with no meaningful work to do'?
 
doubledeb said:
Fair enough no more pay cuts but that doesn't mean there won't be another pension levy, higher taxes or other ways of cutting the 3bn from the public pay.
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The 3 billion to be cut this year and next year does not have to come exclusively from the PS pay bill. It would be impossible to achieve. It is a mixture of increased taxation and spending cuts. As PS bill accounts for 1/3 of spending, it is reasonable to assume the majority of budget measures will not come from PS bill itself.
 
The grant for purchasing electric cars has nothing to do with the pay deal or our expenses.

I'm interested in the views of the PS workers on the deal only by way of the friends of mine who work in the PS/CS. None that I know want to strike, they aren't being bullied into rejection, but they feel there's an expectation to do so.

As one said to me over a pint, he felt embarrassed to discuss with me his union leader stating there was nothing in this deal when what he saw was a guaranteed job for 4 years and the guarantee of no pay cut for 4 years. Just how many people out there wouldn't bite their employer's hand off to get that? Sure there's give and take, but if he's looking at paying the mortgage and feeding his kids, he's prepared to give up his right of strike and work extra hours in order to do have a 4 year guarantee.
 
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