What will happen when/if the PService deal is rejected?

Deiseblue said:
And again you've neatly sidestepped my point.

You referenced my post , suggested that you were taking it at " face value " and stated that I suggested that the two teachers in question were overworked , underpaid and further stated that I suggested that they should were right to give up the voluntary work - as I say absolute and utter nonsense on your part.

You are merely misquoting me for your own ends.

Of course the teachers are entitled to be angry,bitter and disillusioned about two unilateral pay cuts , would'nt you be ?

Of course they feel undervalued and given the rather slewed view of the job they do by the media and by some members of the public as I said I can see their point of view
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I understood thedaras post to be an imaginary situation where he would show his response to you and others who take a certain view of the teachers,if he took the post at face value.In otherwords ,if he had no argument with what you stated,and in this context, he was correct in his observations.

In fairness to thedaras,I have not seen him say your posts are absolute and utter nonsense, nor that you are envious,these kind of things,which you bring into a debate are classic sidestepping technics.
The consistent redherrings and word smithing is also another classic.
 
DonDub, I find debating with Complainer about the Public Sector and/or left wing politics is like arguing evolution with a creationist; you can present any facts you like but they will be countered with dogma. It's pointless.

Some posters never offer an opinion; they are above entering into a debate with the ill-informed masses. They just snipe from the side lines. The best tactic when dealing with then is to point out the flaws in their points rather than rising to the bait.
 
Very well put purple..

dondub; I was pointing out that if I were to take the posts at face value,the reply would be as I had stated, ie;agree with everything the posters state about teachers being underpaid and overworked etc.

I showed how the answer would look and hopefully how ridiculous it would look.
Which obviously worked..
 
thedaras said:
Very well put purple..

dondub; I was pointing out that if I were to take the posts at face value,the reply would be as I had stated, ie;agree with everything the posters state about teachers being underpaid and overworked etc.

I showed how the answer would look and hopefully how ridiculous it would look.
Which obviously worked..
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It certainly is a novel concept.

Misrepresent everything I said in my opening post and then base your replies on those misrepresentations.

The machiavellian nature of your argument has left me most confused.

Let me conclude by saying , yes the two teachers in question have decided to cease their voluntary work with the two teams due to anger , bitterness and disillusionment at two unilateral pay cuts and at the rather hostile view taken of their job by certain elements of the media and the public.

What more can I say ,that's the sad reality out there.
 
DonDub said:
I understood thedaras post to be an imaginary situation where he would show his response to you and others who take a certain view of the teachers.
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I didn't take thedaras initial post to be imaginary, like wise deiseblues initial post did not take a certain view of the teachers. He was just relaying how two teacher friends of his felt!

It was later posts which brought the topic down, to a point now where it's getting silly.
 
brigade said:
I didn't take thedaras initial post to be imaginary, like wise deiseblues initial post did not take a certain view of the teachers. He was just relaying how two teacher friends of his felt!
.
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[
B]Heres how the debate would look..
Ah the poor things, thats terrible..They should do less hours,get more money, definitely no more voluntary work,please God let them have time to do little jobs around the house and bring ,the missus out for a pint.
No way are they withdrawing their services due to paycuts,bless them for all the extra unpaid effort they've put in over the years,and not even being acknowledged by us or their employer.
[/B]
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Above is the post you speak of.
Once again I will say that what I was showing was an imaginary situation where I took all the posts about teachers pay/conditions and not challenge them.
I thought it was blindingly obvious that I wouldn't reply to a post that way!
 
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Actually, thats not the post I speak of.
Your initial post on the subject of the teachers was post #253.
 
Could you expand please,why would you think 253 was imaginary?
I have no idea why post 253 would be thought of as imaginary?
 
The Croke Park deal is a good deal for those working in the public sector in light of a county with a massive budget deficit.
 
Purple said:
DonDub, I find debating with Complainer about the Public Sector and/or left wing politics is like arguing evolution with a creationist; you can present any facts you like but they will be countered with dogma. It's pointless.

Some posters never offer an opinion; they are above entering into a debate with the ill-informed masses. They just snipe from the side lines. The best tactic when dealing with then is to point out the flaws in their points rather than rising to the bait.
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I think you are right Purple, I find they generally zone in on a minor point - then argue it to death. It would be great to engage in a real debate - to get a real answer or counter-argument, but hey, that would be a lot to ask from people who have spent years defending the indefensible....
 
#346
Today, 11:43 AM
brigade
Frequent Poster

Posts: 51

Quote:
Originally Posted by DonDub
I understood thedaras post to be an imaginary situation where he would show his response to you and othe rs who take a certain view of the teachers.

Brigade"I didn't take thedaras initial post to be imaginary, like wise deiseblues initial post did not take a certain view of the teachers. He was just relaying how two teacher friends of his felt!
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It was later posts which brought the topic down, to a point now where it's getting silly.
[/QUOTE).

Don dub is correct is his post above.
You will need to point out what the "initial " post has to do with anything!!I never suggested that the initial post was an imaginary situation.

As you can see don dub is referring to how I posted about a situation if I was to agree with everything.
You then mention post 253,I am totally baffled as to what your point is.
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Impact have backed Croke Park deal. If SIPTU do the same it looks like it will be passed by ICTU.

[broken link removed]
 
Caveat said:
And do you think they will?

(Might read as a smart-ass response but it's a genuine question!)
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There was a strong acceptance from Impact (77%) so I would be surprised it SIPTU rejected it.
I know other PS workers on AAM are against the deal but I honestly don't there will be any thing better on offer.
It will be interesting to see how it plays out as it looks like 'frontline staff' such as nurses, teacher etc will reject it and 'non-frontline' staff will accept.
 
Shawady said:
There was a strong acceptance from Impact (77%) so I would be surprised it SIPTU rejected it.
I know other PS workers on AAM are against the deal but I honestly don't there will be any thing better on offer.
It will be interesting to see how it plays out as it looks like 'frontline staff' such as nurses, teacher etc will reject it and 'non-frontline' staff will accept.
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a high acceptance by Impact yes, but a low turn out, 50 odd % which surprised me, as the turn out for previous votes was higher as far as I remember.
 
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