Public sector V Public sector

[Shawady]

Why then, can the public sector workers not be treated the same. If you don't like the levy, then opt out but your pension will be less.

Don't want to get into the finer details of private pensions versus public pension, but its worth mentioning the point that the government could not afford to lose the pension contributions and levies from PS workers at the moment. Between the two they must be bringing in a couple of billion in revenue.
If this went into a ring fenced contributory pension fund the government would not have this money to spend and public servants would be entitled to the state old age pension on retirement.

 

[S.L.F]

They are been asked to contribute toward their own pension (like everone else) and which should always have been the way, why on earth should they get anything else extra.

That's gas I didn't know they were asked anything.

I never said the levy increases your pension when you retire.

What you said was...

"From the point of view outside the Public service your pension levy is a contribution toward your own pension so you'll get value for this income when you retire"

This implies to me that the pension levy is added to the pension when you retire, it is not.

Your not a public service worker, wonder how people got that idea... Is someone close to you one??

Yes, you are very good, someone close to me, in fact you too.

The guy who sweeps the road, the nurse, teacher...

Why then, can the public sector workers not be treated the same. If you don't like the levy, then opt out but your pension will be less.

Tell that to the temporary staff who pay it but don't get the pension

 

[S.L.F]

Has all this not been argued to death by now. People have their views and these are not going to change by rehashing old arguments.

I agree

Bring back the ceasefire.

 

[liaconn]

well, we're all taking pay cuts. I've had a 5% cut, on top of that I've had my shifts cut. On top of that we've had tax /paye/whatever rises. My wife's lost her job. All in all, we're down about 20k pa. So its a bit hard for me to feel sorry for those in the public sector that get "absolutely nothing extra" for their cuts. I got absolutely nothing for mine except the fun of trying to run a household on 1 income while my wife struggled, in vain, to get the dole

and further, this whole concept of getting nothing for taking a pay cut - ffs, the country is screwed and rather than accept a cut, it's whats in it for me if I take a cut... in other words it's not a cut, its a quid pro quo. a transfer of salary into benefit...

The point though is that many people are saying that Public Servants haven't taken a pay cut and totally dismiss the pension levy as irrelevant. We have taken a pay cut. And we've had the same tax/paye/whatever rises that you've had. Also, I would dispute that 'we're all taking pay cuts'. There are lots of private sector workers hiding behind those who have taken cuts or lost their jobs and using 'we,we,we' very disingenuously.

 

[galleyslave]

The point though is that many people are saying that Public Servants haven't taken a pay cut and totally dismiss the pension levy as irrelevant. We have taken a pay cut. And we've had the same tax/paye/whatever rises that you've had. Also, I would dispute that 'we're all taking pay cuts'. There are lots of private sector workers hiding behind those who have taken cuts or lost their jobs and using 'we,we,we' very disingenuously.

wee, we've all taken a cut in the sense taxes are up. I and many other private sector workers have taken a double hit - firstly in the form of a pay cut. Second in the form of massive devaluation of our pension pot

Public sector workers have got a guaranteed pension pot and are being asked to take a relatively modest cut/levy to ensure its continuance.

I think thats more than fair.

 

[liaconn]

wee, we've all taken a cut in the sense taxes are up. I and many other private sector workers have taken a double hit - firstly in the form of a pay cut. Second in the form of massive devaluation of our pension pot

Public sector workers have got a guaranteed pension pot and are being asked to take a relatively modest cut/levy to ensure its continuance.

I think thats more than fair.

Oh I forgot, Public Servants don't pay taxes .


To use your logic all Public Servants have taken a double hit and are now about to get a treble hit.
I agree, this thread has just turned into the same old arguments.

 

[galleyslave]

Oh I forgot, Public Servants don't pay taxes .


To use your logic all Public Servants have taken a double hit and are now about to get a treble hit.
I agree, this thread has just turned into the same old arguments.

rubbish
where did I say public servants dont pay taxes. I clearly said we've all taken a hit re taxes. I went on to say private sector workers got their pensions hit and also have had pay cuts. not sure how you got out of that, that public sector workers are even worse off...

 

[csirl]

I went on to say private sector workers got their pensions hit

Bit of a sweeping statement. Obviously you have a crystal ball that has told you how well the stock markets will perform for the next 20, 30, 40 odd years. Its not possible to say at this point in time whether or not the recent temporary drop in share prices has had any impact on the pensions people will receive in future decades.

 

[S.L.F]

I agree, this thread has just turned into the same old arguments.

Yeah but 'they' are the ones who are wrong.

"Up the Public Service"

 

[Caveat]

I agree, this thread has just turned into the same old arguments.

In fairness, a public sector worker started the thread and it seems to me that it was you and SLF who were the first to make emotive posts about all of this - what do you expect?

BTW have you seen Cork's last post on the Nov 24th thread?

 

[z101]

That's gas I didn't know they were asked anything.
What you said was...

"From the point of view outside the Public service your pension levy is a contribution toward your own pension so you'll get value for this income when you retire"

This implies to me that the pension levy is added to the pension when you retire, it is not.

Yes, you are very good, someone close to me, in fact you too.

The guy who sweeps the road, the nurse, teacher...

Tell that to the temporary staff who pay it but don't get the pension

Your are misunderstanding that. A private sector worker pays into a pension which they get when they retire, not as good as a public sector workers guaranteed pension I know, but a pension of some sorts.
A public sector worker also get a pension for which they are been asked to contribute towards now. So they will get value for what they pay now ,then. Fair enough. (regardless of what semantical twist you want to put on it). As I said I actually agree that temporary staff shouldn't have to pay for the guaranteed pensions of their full time PS colleagues.

So your getting hot under the collar and ducking and diving your arguments because your worried about the income of bin men et al and not the income of a family member or maybe yourself..
Yeah Right!

Disclosure is not asked for I guess on AAM but people are not stupid either.

 

[liaconn]

rubbish
where did I say public servants dont pay taxes. I clearly said we've all taken a hit re taxes. I went on to say private sector workers got their pensions hit and also have had pay cuts. not sure how you got out of that, that public sector workers are even worse off...

You were using tax increases as an example of how private sector workers have all taken pay cuts. I was making the poiint that everyone pays taxes.

SLF, you are so right, as always.

 

[galleyslave]

Bit of a sweeping statement. Obviously you have a crystal ball that has told you how well the stock markets will perform for the next 20, 30, 40 odd years.

jaysus. you have a brilliant way of misrepresenting what people say. no, I dont have a crystal ball. I do however have statements showing the value of my investments and pensions going back 20 years. Perusing those I can clearly see how their value has fallen in the current economic climate. I note that when I retire my pension pot will therefore be lower than it would have been had there not been a recession.
I also note that this does not apply to the public sector.

now, lets try this again - double whammy - pay cuts and pension worth less...

Its not possible to say at this point in time whether or not the recent temporary drop in share prices has had any impact on the pensions people will receive in future decades.

er... yes, it is. mathematics 101.

 

[galleyslave]

You were using tax increases as an example of how private sector workers have all taken pay cuts. I was making the poiint that everyone pays taxes.

SLF, you are so right, as always.

no I wasn't I said we've ALL had tax rises. I went on to say... oh, go and read it again...

 

[liaconn]

In fairness, a public sector worker started the thread and it seems to me that it was you and SLF who were the first to make emotive posts about all of this - what do you expect?

BTW have you seen Cork's last post on the Nov 24th thread?

We were not being any more 'emotive' than the people attacking the Public Sector.

Yes, I've seen Cork's last post which I'll answer on that thread.

 

[galleyslave]

We were not being any more 'emotive' than the people attacking the Public Sector.

oh, I wouldnt say emotive - everyone is reasonably civil. I'd say disingenuous

 

[Caveat]

We were not being any more 'emotive' than the people attacking the Public Sector.

I was talking about page 1 of the thread BTW - before anyone attacked anyone.

This is getting silly now anyway.

The weather's awful isn't it - have you done much of your Christmas shopping yet?

 

[liaconn]

oh, I wouldnt say emotive - everyone is reasonably civil. I'd say disingenuous

Eh, I think I've already used that word (in connection with the Private Sector).

Pleeeease lets close this thread.

Yes, Caveat the weather is frightful. I see the decorations are up around town. Don't they look gorgeous.

 

[galleyslave]

I dunno, this thread is reflective of society as a whole, the unions negotiations with the govt. it's almost a metaphor for the ills of our society!

 

[Shawady]

In fairness, a public sector worker started the thread and it seems to me that it was you and SLF who were the first to make emotive posts about all of this - what do you expect?

BTW have you seen Cork's last post on the Nov 24th thread?

To be fair Caveat, the thread was not about pensions but about the different approaches the union might take for pay cuts.
Unfortunately this happens with most threads about the public sector. It has become an emotive issue for both sides of the debate.