Public sector V Public sector

[Shawady]

It looks inevitable that the government is going to cut 1.3 billion from the public sector pay bill and I think the next battleground is not Public V Private, but Public V Public. If reports are correct in the papers, the government is looking at the whole system of allowances but this will affect some workers more than others. Therefore different public sector unions are going to have a different view on the correct approach.

Should the government just cut all pay by the same percentage or should they look to scrap some of these allowances that may be not justified now?

For example it was mentioned in one report that plain-clothes garda get a ‘plain clothes’ allowance worth 9 million a year to the state.

 

[Firefly]

The easiest thing would be to roll back the most recent bench-marking increases until the 1.3bn is obtained. That way everyone in the PS is back to where they were 2 years ago I'd say.

 

[gipimann]

Not all grades got an increase in the last benchmarking round (mine for one).

 

[S.L.F]

It looks inevitable that the government is going to cut 1.3 billion from the public sector pay bill and I think the next battleground is not Public V Private, but Public V Public. If reports are correct in the papers, the government is looking at the whole system of allowances but this will affect some workers more than others. Therefore different public sector unions are going to have a different view on the correct approach.

Should the government just cut all pay by the same percentage or should they look to scrap some of these allowances that may be not justified now?

For example it was mentioned in one report that plain-clothes garda get a ‘plain clothes’ allowance worth 9 million a year to the state.

I think taking a hatchet to the semi state wages would be a great thing they, at least, are paid far too much and their perks are out of this world.

The last I heard the ESB workers are looking for a cut of the pie if and when the ESB is privatized, this from an organisation where the average wage is €75,000.

Plus they did not get hit with the pension tax levy.

 

[Booter]

Not all grades got an increase in the last benchmarking round (mine for one).

Wouldn't make any difference if it did. While a small amount of grades had pay rises recommended by the second benchmarking report, none of these have been paid, nor are they ever likely to.

 

[Firefly]

Not all grades got an increase in the last benchmarking round (mine for one).

You wouldn't be affected then - just roll back the benchmarkings that were paid

 

[Shawady]

What about freezing increments?
I thought this would be a no brainer and would save shave several hundred million euro a year off the wage bill, but according to one of the sunday papers this was proposed by Impact but the leader of the CPSU would not entertain the idea at all.

 

[Caveat]

What about freezing increments?
I thought this would be a no brainer and would save shave several hundred million euro a year off the wage bill ...

I agree but it will never happen. The idea of automatic increments stinks to high heaven IMO but it's too late now.

 

[galleyslave]

What about freezing increments?
I thought this would be a no brainer and would save shave several hundred million euro a year off the wage bill, but according to one of the sunday papers this was proposed by Impact but the leader of the CPSU would not entertain the idea at all.

freezing increments stops further increases but does nothing to reduce the current bills

 

[Yorrick]

Whatever happens we are heading for higher unemployment. I know several public employees and everyone of them is saying that while they know there are in a lucky position that they will be cutting back completely on discretionary spending.
Cutting back on the holidays, pubs meals out etc. It is obvious if you take 4 bilion out of an econmy that demand will fall. The same will apply with the social welfare recipients. It is tight enough for them as it is but they will eliminate any unecessary spending result ing in more job losses in the services sector.

 

[liaconn]

Exactly. I can never understand the gloating tone of some posters and the media when they talk about public sector pay cuts. They don't seem to realise the domino effect of this and talk as if they won't be affected in any way. Surely they realise that public sector employees don't live in some kind of vacuum. Who do they think are purchasing their goods and services?

 

[dockingtrade]

Exactly. I can never understand the gloating tone of some posters and the media when they talk about public sector pay cuts. They don't seem to realise the domino effect of this and talk as if they won't be affected in any way. Surely they realise that public sector employees don't live in some kind of vacuum. Who do they think are purchasing their goods and services?

By that logic give them all a pay rise. It doesnt matter what they do with their money or what will happen if you cut pay, there is no money to pay the current sector pay bill. Take the cut then they where they are and theyll start spending again. I mean cut in tiers not across the board.

 

[liaconn]

My point is that private sector workers don't seem to realise they will be affected by cuts in public sector pay. I'm not saying it won't happen, just that some people in the private sector are doing some misplaced gloating and acting like they won't be hit by it as well..

 

[Caveat]

My point is that private sector workers don't seem to realise they will be affected by cuts in public sector pay. I'm not saying it won't happen, just that some people in the private sector are doing some misplaced gloating and acting like they won't be hit by it as well..

Are there that many gloaters on this site? If you exclude the ones who get banned pretty promptly for their general behaviour anyway, I'd struggle to find any really.

Public V public? It might yet happen. Is there true solidarity within ICTU? I don't think so at all and I predict cracks/internal disagreements will surface soon.

 

[csirl]

Most allowances should be abolished. The majority are unjustified and they tend to be concentrated in certain sectors of the public service where the employees are more militant/political. Many only exist to give certain sectors of the public service extra money without it being recorded as salary.

I agree with S.L.F. on the ESB - the reason we have some of the highest electricity prices in the world is because ESB employees are way over paid. Time to cut their pay and pass it onto the consumer and businesses in the form of price cuts. Also, if ESB employees wont take the pension levy, then they shouldnt be in a State funded pension scheme.

The other area that needs to be looked at are public sector jobs that are 24/7 jobs being paid premium rates for working outside 9-5. If you take a job such as a nurse, Garda etc. that is a 24/7 profession, you shouldnt expect to get paid overtime or premium rates outside office hours. Its not as if working outside these times is unexpected or unusual with these professions. The should be hired on the basis that they work a 41 hour week, but can be rostered for any time.

 

[Deiseblue]

Perhaps the best way for the Unions to fight public sector pay cuts is to simply say to the 24/7 Front Line Alliance - you go on strike and we will use all our strike funds to support you and we will suggest to all other members that they pay a proportion of their wages to ensure that your salaries are not affected by your strike action enabling them to stay on strike as long as required ?

 

[bogle]

The other area that needs to be looked at are public sector jobs that are 24/7 jobs being paid premium rates for working outside 9-5. If you take a job such as a nurse, Garda etc. that is a 24/7 profession, you shouldnt expect to get paid overtime or premium rates outside office hours. Its not as if working outside these times is unexpected or unusual with these professions. The should be hired on the basis that they work a 41 hour week, but can be rostered for any time.

I'm not sure what you're getting at here?

Are you saying that someone who works 24/7 shouldn't get extra pay over and above someone who's doing a similar job on a 9 to 5 basis Monday to Friday? If the answer is yes you've probably never worked shift work.

Or

Are you saying that if they get asked to do overtime it shouldn't be at overtime rates? In other words if somebody has already done say a cycle of 10 to 12 hour nights and are then due rest days and they end up coming in during the rest period to do an un-rosterd 10 to 12 hour night at maybe a few hours notice that this be paid at a flat rate?

I use to work shift work - worked days, evenings, nights, Christmas Eve, Christmas Day, New Years Eve, New Years day, Bank Holidays. It plays absolute havoc with family life and social activities and also with you're body clock.

Some people never really adjust to doing shift work, finding it impossible to sleep during the day so much so that they end up having to change job.

Also I've observed that older people (say 50+) find doing nights tougher and tougher the older they get. Four AM in the morning is perfect heart attack time!

So personally I don't begrudge 24/7 workers the extra money they get for working unsocial hours, especially those dealing with the public.

 

[batty]

Most allowances should be abolished. The majority are unjustified and they tend to be concentrated in certain sectors of the public service where the employees are more militant/political. Many only exist to give certain sectors of the public service extra money without it being recorded as salary.

I agree with S.L.F. on the ESB - the reason we have some of the highest electricity prices in the world is because ESB employees are way over paid. Time to cut their pay and pass it onto the consumer and businesses in the form of price cuts. Also, if ESB employees wont take the pension levy, then they shouldnt be in a State funded pension scheme.

The other area that needs to be looked at are public sector jobs that are 24/7 jobs being paid premium rates for working outside 9-5. If you take a job such as a nurse, Garda etc. that is a 24/7 profession, you shouldnt expect to get paid overtime or premium rates outside office hours. Its not as if working outside these times is unexpected or unusual with these professions. The should be hired on the basis that they work a 41 hour week, but can be rostered for any time.

Is the ESB pension fund state funded?
Who sets electricity prices in Ireland?

 

[annet]

I'm not sure what you're getting at here?

Are you saying that someone who works 24/7 shouldn't get extra pay over and above someone who's doing a similar job on a 9 to 5 basis Monday to Friday? If the answer is yes you've probably never worked shift work.

Or

Are you saying that if they get asked to do overtime it shouldn't be at overtime rates? In other words if somebody has already done say a cycle of 10 to 12 hour nights and are then due rest days and they end up coming in during the rest period to do an un-rosterd 10 to 12 hour night at maybe a few hours notice that this be paid at a flat rate?

I use to work shift work - worked days, evenings, nights, Christmas Eve, Christmas Day, New Years Eve, New Years day, Bank Holidays. It plays absolute havoc with family life and social activities and also with you're body clock.

Some people never really adjust to doing shift work, finding it impossible to sleep during the day so much so that they end up having to change job.

Also I've observed that older people (say 50+) find doing nights tougher and tougher the older they get. Four AM in the morning is perfect heart attack time!

So personally I don't begrudge 24/7 workers the extra money they get for working unsocial hours, especially those dealing with the public.

Public sector workers in 24/7 knew when they went into the job that their jobs were not traditionally 9-5. In addition to benefiting from increments and the awards under benchmarking - they get paid for working unsocial hours, night shifts, saturday's, sunday's and bank holidays.... but night shifts were horrible - especially when it got to around two to three in the morning.

 

[S.L.F]

Is the ESB pension fund state funded?
Who sets electricity prices in Ireland?

The pension fund for the ESB comes from Electricity prices.

The govt sets the price but has been know to do as the ESB asks...