Why is Bitcoin "digital gold" crashing right now?

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Brendan Burgess said:
You will have to ask the author of the Sunday Times article I was quoting.
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Sure, why not - all the one group think on that side of the house in any event. It seems you're both a tad confused as regards how gold (and commodities generally) are priced.

Wheeling this back to where it began, Brendan - your search for the valuation of bitcoin belongs with the valuation of gold and commodities. And that's why singling out bitcoin for specific outrage was never kosher.
 
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Ah now Duke,

I refuse to fall for the BJ/Cummings bullying tactics - you may like BJ but not my cup of tea at all.
Also, I note that your silent partner in all of this was quick enough off the blocks with a slap on the back for you.

Brendan - is right about one thing though - this is getting ridiculous. For some time, direct questions have been not answered. All I tried to do is bring this to a head. Instead of simply answering the question, we get, yet another unfortunate attempt, to play the man not the ball.

Duke of Marmalade said:
S/he also probably buys into your faux indignation at what you term personalised attacks.
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Also, if you are going to use terms of French origin - please understand the indignation is feminine and so the correct form of the adjective in question is fausse. You're welcome!:D
 
MaxGordon said:
Also, if you are going to use terms of French origin - please understand the indignation is feminine and so the correct form of the adjective in question is fausse. You're welcome!:D
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I am well aware of its origin, but I am speaking English (French may even be against the AAM rules). Faux Indignation is the correct English term (try Google). Anyway I note that you (erroneously) corrected the word but did not deny its accusation.
I also do not accept your protestations of innocence, that you are only trying to help.
 
MaxGordon said:
What you need to understand about gold is that it gets dug out of the ground in Africa…..then we melt it down, dig another hole, bury it again and pay people to stand around guarding it. It has no utility.
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Try removing all the gold from the device you used to post that message and come back and tell us more of how gold has no utility.
 
Leo said:
Try removing all the gold from the device you used to post that message and come back and tell us more of how gold has no utility.
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Hi Leo,

I don't like the sense of being bullied - not by you I hasten to add. I have said before that I am happy (content, not contente for le duc) to answer all questions once the outstanding questions on the other side of the net have been answered. That's fair, non?

Last week or maybe it was the week before, it literally took multiple posts for the Duke to stop denying the undeniable (have a look - it's on this very thread) and here we go again on a different but similar charade.

By the way, the only form of faux that I can think of which invariably has structural intégrité when used in English is when it's combined with pas, as in, faux-pas. Typically used in a context, such as: "I made a mistake". Admittedly, not a term particularly prevalent in le duc's lexicon.

Note how any subsequent reply from said poster may well focus on this little side charade but refuse, at all costs, to answer the outstanding questions. As my pal Barnier says, I'm not going into le tunnel until a bit of fair-play is demonstrated. All I ask is for just a bit of bonne foi or as le duc himself would put it, a bit of bon foi.....
 
MaxGordon said:
Hi Leo,

I don't like the sense of being bullied - not by you I hasten to add. I have said before that I am happy (content, not contente for le duc) to answer all questions once the outstanding questions on the other side of the net have been answered. That's fair, non?

Last week or maybe it was the week before, it literally took multiple posts for the Duke to stop denying the undeniable (have a look - it's on this very thread) and here we go again on a different but similar charade.

By the way, the only form of faux that I can think of which invariably has structural intégrité when used in English is when it's combined with pas, as in, faux-pas. Typically used in a context, such as: "I made a mistake". Admittedly, not a term particularly prevalent in le duc's lexicon.

Note how any subsequent reply from said poster may well focus on this little side charade but refuse, at all costs, to answer the outstanding questions. As my pal Barnier says, I'm not going into le tunnel until a bit of fair-play is demonstrated. All I ask is for just a bit of bonne foi or as le duc himself would put it, a bit of bon foi.....
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I am sure @tecate is splitting his/her sides at the puerile humour. I don't accept your bona fides but for what its worth please give me a synopsis of the questions that I have not answered. To the extent that they are bona fide I will have no problem in answering them.
 
Thank you, Duke

I choose to ignore the customary reflex swing - leopards will be leopards - and focus on the positive aspects. And this is encouraging. Perhaps, my dignified steadfastness and calm persistence have paid off again - much like they did in our last tête-à-tête. Or maybe it's because Leo has got involved. Whatever the case, this is great as we can now focus on the issues.

In deference to long-suffering Tecate, I believe that it's only fair that he compiles all outstanding questions. I acknowledge his superior knowledge and I do not wish to spurn this breakthrough.

Je vous prie de croire, Madame la duchesse/ Monsieur le duc, (comme vous aimez bien) en l’expression des mes plus respectueuses salutations.
 
MaxGordon said:
I don't like the sense of being bullied - not by you I hasten to add. I have said before that I am happy (content, not contente for le duc) to answer all questions once the outstanding questions on the other side of the net have been answered. That's fair, non?
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You can report any posts you feel are bullying via the link on the bottom left of that post. We try to view all reports impartially.

MaxGordon said:
Last week or maybe it was the week before, it literally took multiple posts for the Duke to stop denying the undeniable
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Sorry, I don't understand what that has to do with your claim gold has no utility?
 
Leo said:
Sorry, I don't understand what that has to do with your claim gold has no utility?
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At 7.48%, that industrial utility is so insignificant, I'd imagine it was hardly worth Max' time in responding.
 
tecate said:
At 7.48%, that industrial utility is so insignificant, I'd imagine it was hardly worth Max' time in responding.
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So if someone offered you 7% you'd turn it down in favour of a no-interest account as they're actually the same thing?

For some reason you also omit the 46% demand for jewelry too? (though that is down to around 30% of demand this year as COVID impacts discretionary spending)
 
MaxGordon said:
Thank you, Duke

I choose to ignore the customary reflex swing - leopards will be leopards - and focus on the positive aspects. And this is encouraging. Perhaps, my dignified steadfastness and calm persistence have paid off again - much like they did in our last tête-à-tête. Or maybe it's because Leo has got involved. Whatever the case, this is great as we can now focus on the issues.

In deference to long-suffering Tecate, I believe that it's only fair that he compiles all outstanding questions. I acknowledge his superior knowledge and I do not wish to spurn this breakthrough.

Je vous prie de croire, Madame la duchesse/ Monsieur le duc, (comme vous aimez bien) en l’expression des mes plus respectueuses salutations.
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And the questions are?
 
Leo said:
So if someone offered you 7% you'd turn it down in favour of a no-interest account as they're actually the same thing?
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They're in NO way the same thing (as in, the analogy is totally flawed). It demonstrates that industrial use of gold is peripheral. Its value has little relation to that industrial use and everything to do with a store of value use case based on the scarcity of gold.

Leo said:
For some reason you also omit the 46% demand for jewelry too?
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How, omit? You never referred to it. Aside from that, its been discussed already. As per the world gold council, they class gold jewelry as an investment category (because they have the experience to know that people worldwide lead with the value of gold as their main rationale in buying it).
 
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Never a dull moment...

"Iran Amends Law to Allow Imports to be Funded with Cryptocurrency."

It's the first country to officially look to use bitcoin to facilitate imports/trade finance. It's also making bitcoin miners within the country sell bitcoin to the Iranian Central Bank. Venezuela also put a national crypto mining pool in place.

This is big news. The reaction could be interesting to say the least (but ultimately, I think it doesn't matter - as there's not going to be any way to stop this).
 
tecate said:
It demonstrates that industrial use of gold is peripheral.
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Is peripheral industrial use @ ~7.48% = 0? If it is not zero, then the statement was factually incorrect. Bitcoin has a market cap 2.5% the size of the investment/reserve gold market. If 7.48% is peripheral, how did this thread get to 25 pages on something of even less consequence?

Is there utility in gold in the production of jewelry? Of course there is, it's a multi-billion dollar industry.

tecate said:
As per the world gold council, they class gold jewelry as an investment category (because they have the experience to know that people worldwide lead with the value of gold as their main rationale in buying it).
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The Gold Council may have a vested interest in having it regarded as such, but I find no such statement on their site. Can you point to where the Gold Council made that claim, and the source that confirms that investment is the primary driver for buying gold jewelry? How many people buying a ring in your average high-street retailer consider that purchase as an investment? Most purchasers subsequently give it away, yielding a 100% loss on that investment. In short, anyone buying retail gold jewelry as an investment is a moron.
 
tecate said:
It's the first country to officially look to use bitcoin to facilitate imports/trade finance. It's also making bitcoin miners within the country sell bitcoin to the Iranian Central Bank. Venezuela also put a national crypto mining pool in place.
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Hardly a surprise when they've been using it for years to bypass international sanctions, even doing so openly . From protecting vulnerable citizens' wealth from seizure under despotic regimes to propping up those self same rulers....it really does provide something for everyone!
 
tecate said:
Never a dull moment...

"Iran Amends Law to Allow Imports to be Funded with Cryptocurrency."

It's the first country to officially look to use bitcoin to facilitate imports/trade finance. It's also making bitcoin miners within the country sell bitcoin to the Iranian Central Bank. Venezuela also put a national crypto mining pool in place.

This is big news. The reaction could be interesting to say the least (but ultimately, I think it doesn't matter - as there's not going to be any way to stop this).
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This is not an endorsement of bitcoin. It is just an extension of the criminal use of bitcoin, it is sanctions busting. Now if they started to hold long term reserves in bitcoin, well that would be news, it would mean a sovereign nation believing in its "store of value".
But rogue nations using bitcoin for any purpose should be seen by enthusiasts as a negative development. Most such enthusiasts accept that a major threat to the currency would be concerted action by the major nations to suppress it. So far that hasn't happened as the powers that be don't take crypto seriously - rogue nations avoiding sanctions could change that.
 
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Leo said:
Is peripheral industrial use @ ~7.48% = 0? If it is not zero, then the statement was factually incorrect. Bitcoin has a market cap 2.5% the size of the investment/reserve gold market. If 7.48% is peripheral, how did this thread get to 25 pages on something of even less consequence?
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You can take it out of context to support your world view all day long, Leo....but that's precisely what you're doing. 7.48% remains peripheral relative to the other use case of gold - which is as a store of value. Its value is derived from that.

Leo said:
The Gold Council may have a vested interest in having it regarded as such, but I find no such statement on their site. Can you point to where the Gold Council made that claim, and the source that confirms that investment is the primary driver for buying gold jewelry? How many people buying a ring in your average high-street retailer consider that purchase as an investment? Most purchasers subsequently give it away, yielding a 100% loss on that investment. In short, anyone buying retail gold jewelry as an investment is a moron.
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Go back and read through the thread - I'm not digging up another link to their report - it's here and on record. That's their belief. You can believe that everyone else is a moron all you want. It changes nothing.

Leo said:
Hardly a surprise when they've been using it for years to bypass international sanctions, even doing so openly . From protecting vulnerable citizens' wealth from seizure under despotic regimes to propping up those self same rulers....it really does provide something for everyone!
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A surprise? No. A significant development? Yes. Remember, if as a state they're going to pay in bitcoin, their overseas counterparts will be trading with them in bitcoin. They're also making efforts to secure more bitcoin so that they can finance more imports/trade.
As regards the moral standpoint, there are no innocents on either side of sanctions. The ones that suffer under sanctions are ordinary people - not either of the government actors implicated.


Brendan Burgess said:
You are beginning to make it sound like Bitcoin. :)
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You're doing well with your predictions so far, Brendan - keep them coming.

Duke of Marmalade said:
Now if they started to hold long term reserves in bitcoin, well that would be news, it would mean a sovereign nation believing in its "store of value".
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See above re the morals/ethics of sanctions and the weaponising of the international monetary system.
As regards holding reserves, think a little about what you're saying in relation to what Iran and its central bank are doing. That would be my recommendation.
 
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