Thinking of selling a rental property? You should probably get a move on...

Surely there would be ways around this though right? Decide to move in with the tenants, tell them to move out as you're doing up the property, offer them one month free if they move out etc.? Doesn't seem to be the end of the word?
 
I'm doing likewise, can't afford to have a property that I can't sell if I ever need to - the extra step of the declaration having to be witnessed/signed by commissioner is a pain. I also understand that if the tenant finds somewhere at any point in the notice period, they have no notice requirement. Although if they leave before the notice period is out, it would be a major positive as you could start the sale process much earlier.
 
Decide to move in with the tenants
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This is illegal.

, tell them to move out as you're doing up the property,
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Notice periods still apply and it's not clear if this will remain in the upcoming legislation.

offer them one month free if they move out etc.?
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I think you might be missing the point

Doesn't seem to be the end of the wor[l]d?
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Indeed, it is however (sadly) the end of my tenants tenure; and I suspect that will be a major blow to them.
 
Its crazy what they are proposing. There should be some lead time on this and say we are bringing this in on 1st January 2023 or 2024. This would give landlords who want out of the market time to do so and also give the existing tenants time to find alternative accommodation (difficult I know as it is to do so).

Doing it in a rushed mention like FF are doing and without complete information available to stakeholders, leads to panic, confusion and chaos.

I actually cannot believe that someones property cannot be sold without vacant possession. Banks do not lead mortgages to people without vacant possession. So the market for a rented property now is going to be people who want to become landlords and enter the buy-to-let marketplace (which is a tiny cohort growing smaller by the week!). So selling your property, you are excluding 95% of the possible purchasers. Can you imagine what that will do to your selling price of your property?! How on earth is this legal? I'm really struggling to understand this.
 
Suppose I can give the notice and withdraw it if I wanted to, but there is a risk the tenant will find another place.

As long as I have time to give notice before the legislation I will wait and see what exactly in the leglisation.
 
aristotle said:
Suppose I can give the notice and withdraw it if I wanted to, but there is a risk the tenant will find another place.

As long as I have time to give notice before the legislation I will wait and see what exactly in the leglisation.
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They have done this before with surprise legislation at Christmas when it is too late for a person to react to it.
I wouldnt count on having the time to serve your notice if you wait.
 
The problem is we don't know what the Minister means by a "tenancy of indefinite duration".

Is he simply proposing to drop the six-year term of a Part IV tenancy (which, frankly, would be fairly meaningless) or is he planning to remove or restrict the no fault grounds for terminating a Part IV tenancy (as per Labour's private members Bill)?

I guess we'll find out soon enough.
 
Sarenco said:
Is he simply proposing to drop the six-year term of a Part IV tenancy (which, frankly, would be fairly meaningless)
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This clause is not well known but it has been kept in throughout all of the changes (four I think) to the Residential Tenancies Act since 2016.

My guess is that there is legal advice to say that you have to allow for a no-grounds termination at some point during the tenancy by a landlord. There were two Supreme Court decisions in 1981 and 1982 which struck down attempts to regulate rents and the Attorney General will be mindful of having to work within these parameters. The Supreme Court found that tenancies of indefinite duration and rent controls were unconstitutional, with the implication that one or other was okay.
 
In any event, I assume if notice of termination is issued say next week, then nothing should be able to prevent that in say 3-5 months time, and it would only apply to tenancies not under a notice at that point ?
 
Rasputin said:
In any event, I assume if notice of termination is issued say next week, then nothing should be able to prevent that in say 3-5 months time, and it would only apply to tenancies not under a notice at that point ?
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I had the same question and it seems we just dont know yet as it depends what is in the final legislation.

Sounds like if you want to do it then serve the termination but there is a risk it will not be valid if the legislation wont allow it retrospectively or if the termination date occurs after the legislation is in-acted. A total mess.
 
i would be of the opinon that if you serve a notice of termination now, effective lets say 1st February 2022 and the legislation is brought in in December 2021 changing the rules, then it doesn't apply to you as you have already served notice. It applies to any notice of terminations from that date (December 2021) onwards once legislation is passed.

Its like it eating apples wasn't illegal on November 1st and I ate an apple on November 1st, then I couldn't be penalised or prosecuted if eating apples was made illegal on November 2nd.
 
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DO'Bien said back in July that he wanted to close off the 'loophole' on terminating a lease at the end of a part 4 tenancy. Not sure if it was DOB or the Irish Examiner reporter who said 'evicting' which raises everyone's hackles. I always thought that eviction was a step much further along in the process and ordered by the courts.

Will that be the only change for 'indefinite tenancies' or does it include selling a rental property with sitting tenants?

Just read the bill proposed by ivana Bacik. Will those changes be passed as well?

Info available here:
data.oireachtas.ie/ie/oireachtas/bill/2021/112/eng/initiated/b11221d.pdf
 
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They just make it temporary, like RPZs, and USC, which bypasses anything that gets in the way of it. It can remain temporary indefinitely then.
 

Health Levies, insurance levies. Both supposed to be temporary too.
At what point do RPZs get deemed unconstitutional though. 10 years, 20 years. 5 years and counting anyway.
 
Surely one effect of these changes that are very likely to take effect such as the 2% max increase per year on rent and obscene rule of "tenancies of indefinite duration" is that properties may have to be revalued for LPT purposes by Landlords.
 
Dermot said:
Surely one effect of these changes that are very likely to take effect such as the 2% max increase per year on rent and obscene rule of "tenancies of indefinite duration" is that properties may have to be revalued for LPT purposes by Landlords.
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Well, the LPT valuation date for the next four years has already passed.
 
OMG_OMG said:
They just make it temporary, like RPZs, and USC, which bypasses anything that gets in the way of it. It can remain temporary indefinitely then.
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Wasn't Income Tax a "temporary" measure introduced to fund the Napoleonic Wars? I believe these have now ended, so I must be due a rebate!
 
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