Thinking of selling a rental property? You should probably get a move on...

RetirementPlan said:
If the houses move from the rental market to the private home market, the occupants will be moving also, with a similar impact on the demand side as the supply side.
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Not so. An example may help. A three bed semi currently rented to 4 adults for ease let's say two couples. One of the couples decides to buy the house and start a family.

You still have one property but only two bed spaces available. So from having four bed spaces available you now only have two as the couple who bought don't want to share. Where does the second couple live?

While the above is a simple example it can be extrapolated to the wider rental market if the State continues on with its anti landlord policies.
 
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The Horseman said:
[QUOTE="RetirementPlan, post: 1741534, member: 116621]"

If the houses move from the rental market to the private home market, the occupants will be moving also, with a similar impact on the demand side as the supply side.
Click to expand...
Not so. An example may help. A three bed semi currently rented to 4 adults for ease let's say two couples. One of the couples decides to buy the house and start a family.

You still have one property but only two bed spaces available. So from having four bed spaces available you now only have two as the couple who bought don't want to share. Where does the second couple live?

While the above is a simple example it can be extrapolated to the wider rental market if the State continues on with its anti landlord policies.
[/QUOTE]
That can happen, for sure, but not many couples jump into having kids as soon as they've bought a house, so they might well choose to rent out a room or two to get them through those early lean years with lots of set-up costs. I'd guess that many of the rental properties in question, particularly for the 'accidental landlords' will be 1 or 2 bed apartments, so they probably won't have had four adults in them in the first place. You might have apartments on even houses that were being rented to older tenants with low occupancy levels that will switch to being occupied by a full family too.
But they certainly won't disappear off the face of the earth.
 
RetirementPlan said:
Not so. An example may help. A three bed semi currently rented to 4 adults for ease let's say two couples. One of the couples decides to buy the house and start a family.

You still have one property but only two bed spaces available. So from having four bed spaces available you now only have two as the couple who bought don't want to share. Where does the second couple live?

While the above is a simple example it can be extrapolated to the wider rental market if the State continues on with its anti landlord policies.
Click to expand...
That can happen, for sure, but not many couples jump into having kids as soon as they've bought a house, so they might well choose to rent out a room or two to get them through those early lean years with lots of set-up costs. I'd guess that many of the rental properties in question, particularly for the 'accidental landlords' will be 1 or 2 bed apartments, so they probably won't have had four adults in them in the first place. You might have apartments on even houses that were being rented to older tenants with low occupancy levels that will switch to being occupied by a full family too.
But they certainly won't disappear off the face of the earth.
[/QUOTE]
Most two bed properties had more than two adults unless they had children. Why would a couple rent a two bed if their is only the two of them. While not unheard of why waste rent on a spare bedroom. Surely that wasted rent would be better utilised towards a deposit to purchase a property.

It is unlikely that older tenants are renting privately and have under occupancy rates. Certainly in public housing this can and does happen.
 
RetirementPlan said:
I was hoping for something a bit more reliable than anecdata, to be honest. The example of leaving properties empty is an interesting one, though possibly not unique to institutional landlords. I've seen individual landlords claim online that it's easier to leave a property empty than rent it out, though I've no idea if they actually carry through on this.

If the houses move from the rental market to the private home market, the occupants will be moving also, with a similar impact on the demand side as the supply side.
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That's flawed thinking. You are thinking in terms of supply and demand which just one dimension, and fluid.
If you think in terms of rental stock, there were 2, now theres just 1 so rental stock is going down. Ie. Supply is going down and we know there is a constant surplus of demand in the medium term at the very least. Few if any are entering BTL as an investment (I was thinking to recently, but dropped the idea as youd want your head examined ) so rental stock is going down. Demand is going up if anything. People need the flexibility of a functioning rental market to move cities for jobs etc, and just because the commitment of buying does not suit everyone depending on what stage of their life they are at etc.

A functioning rental market is vital for the economy. I can tell you 100% that in the company I work for, quite a few jobs have gone to sites in other countries because accommodation was too difficult to get locally, and its going to get much worse
 
raven said:
That's flawed thinking. You are thinking in terms of supply and demand which just one dimension, and fluid.
If you think in terms of rental stock, there were 2, now theres just 1 so rental stock is going down. Ie. Supply is going down and we know there is a constant surplus of demand in the medium term at the very least. Few if any are entering BTL as an investment (I was thinking to recently, but dropped the idea as youd want your head examined ) so rental stock is going down. Demand is going up if anything. People need the flexibility of a functioning rental market to move cities for jobs etc, and just because the commitment of buying does not suit everyone depending on what stage of their life they are at etc.

A functioning rental market is vital for the economy. I can tell you 100% that in the company I work for, quite a few jobs have gone to sites in other countries because accommodation was too difficult to get locally, and its going to get much worse
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There has been considerable activity in the new build rental-only market. We could have a long discussion about whether that is a good idea and whether that is enough, but much of the growth in housing stock in recent years has gone directly into rental stock.
It may well be less attractive for individual investors, but there seems to be no shortage of institutional investors piling in. Again, we could have a long discussion about whether that is a good idea, but we're not exactly short of landlords.
If a landlord sells up and the property is bought by a first-time buyer, that is one less family looking to rent - reduction in demand.
 
"If a landlord sells up and the property is bought by a first-time buyer, that is one less family looking to rent - reduction in demand."

Occupancy rates are higher when renting so there is always displacement
 
Capricorn 1 said:
There is an article in today's Independent titled "Ministers face accusations that Budget helps landlords while renters are ignored". It states:

"Housing Minister Darragh O’Brien acknowledged it was “tough” for renters and said that within the next two weeks, he would do more to put in a cap on rising rents.

He also said that tenancies of indefinite duration were “a number of weeks away” and they would be a “very significant” change".
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If I were a landlord and thinking i might sell in the next few years, i would be jumping and giving the tenants notice right now after hearing the above.
 
Lockup said:
"If a landlord sells up and the property is bought by a first-time buyer, that is one less family looking to rent - reduction in demand."

Occupancy rates are higher when renting so there is always displacement
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'Always' is a little strong. The FTB may well rent out a room or two to get through those early lean years.
 
In my peer group most ftb were already coupled up, so preferred not to share & had two salaries when buying so didn't have the financial pressure. Even those that bought solo were at the end of their tether sharing and preferred to live alone.
 
misemoi said:
In my peer group most ftb were already coupled up, so preferred not to share & had two salaries when buying so didn't have the financial pressure. Even those that bought solo were at the end of their tether sharing and preferred to live alone.
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In my day it was too. Also considered standard to move into a house with no floors or furniture and sleep on a matress on the floor for a while til you saved enough to buy furniture.
Not anymore.
 
RetirementPlan said:
'Always' is a little strong. The FTB may well rent out a room or two to get through those early lean years.
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I did see some stats around it one time but it seems to me to be common sense. While individual cases may vary Rented properties house more ppl than owner occupied. And remember alot of owner occupiers are not FTB.
 
The Minister for Housing apparently intends to legislate for “tenancies of indefinite duration” by the end of this year.

It’s not clear to me whether he intends to restrict the grounds for terminating Part IV tenancies.

www.irishtimes.com

Rent increases to be capped at 2% under new housing plan

Minister for Housing Darragh O’Brien has consulted with the Attorney General to ensure plan can withstand any legal challenges
www.irishtimes.com www.irishtimes.com
 
Hi, is it clear that this "tenancies of indefinite" duration means you cannot evict if you want to sell?

That is unbelievable to me, and now I have to make a decision about my rented property. I assume\hope I can give notice before it is legislation and that it will be valid even though the termination of the tenancy would be say next May but the legislation would be live by them?

I just can't take the risk that if my tenant never wants to leave for the next 30 years that I cannot terminate the tenancy and sell when I need to (at full market rate to owner occupier).

Also, are they removing ability to terminate if I want the property for my children in the future?
 
I plan to give six months notice now.

I have no problem with security of tenure; but potentially being forced to continue to be a landlord against my wishes & not being able to sell my property in the future should I wish to do so is more than I'm prepared to risk.
 
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