The Terror Threat and how the US deals with it

Re: From the sublime to the ridiculous

Other things being equal if I was asked to chose between a Muslim, a fundamentalist Christian, an Atheist or a "slightly agnostic was brought up Christian" (that's me) for President, I would always go for the last. I just don't trust the inherent irrational fanaticism of the others

Why do you have to choose one of them?
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You don’t have to choose one of them Piggy, that’s not what he is saying. I think you are avoiding the issue here to be honest. He says “Other things being equal if I was asked to chose between”, not “the only choices are…” so why do you ask the question? It is a valid point. The essence of democracy is that everyone within the country or organisation that is voting has enough in common with, and enough trust in, the other voters to accept the rules and laws that will be imposed by any majority that does not represent their views. For example I do not agree with the policies of the Labour party but I know that they believe in the same range of fundamental rights that I do and will respect and work within the system that now exists.
I cannot say the same for Islamic or Christian fundamentalist or totalitarian groups.

often we do not have sufficient knowledge of a person to "post judge" them and so we are forced to "pre judge" them based on the actions of others who profess similar beliefs.
I suppose then it'd be quite justified for the British to think of all Irishmen as murderers because of the actions of the IRA.
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Again Piggy, that is not what YD is saying. I am not saying I agree with him/her in everything he/she had said but these are points that deserve a reasoned and rational response and you do yourself and the stance you are taking no favours when you deflect issues like this.
Having said that you avoid the issue less than most here.
 
Taking the tablets

Utter confusion reigns. Purple is being nice to me and cutting off that piggy's tail. :D

Piggy, Brits, even the well meaning ones, do generally have an ingrained prejudice that Irish people are less than respectful of law and order, shall we say.

Can you blame them when so recently violence has been the main instrument of politics on this island. It does not mean they think we are all murderers - but they suspect there is something in the Irish psyche which is at best ambivalent to political violence - are they entirely wrong?

Similarly, I do not for one moment suspect that anything but a very small minority of muslims are suicide terrorists, but even the existence of a few does tarnish the whole culture.

In fact the suicide terrorist is almost unique to muslim culture (Japanese kamikaze being the only other sighting). What sort of fanaticism givs rise to that?
 
Re: From the sublime to the ridiculous

You don’t have to choose one of them Piggy, that’s not what he is saying. I think you are avoiding the issue here to be honest. He says “Other things being equal if I was asked to chose between”, not “the only choices are…” so why do you ask the question? It is a valid point.

Okay. I see your point. However, when did the issue suddenly become one of choosing one group over another. What does which of these guys would you choose for your President have to do with whether or not Muslims should be demonised or how we should show tolerance and treat those on our doorstep with respect?

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often we do not have sufficient knowledge of a person to "post judge" them and so we are forced to "pre judge" them based on the actions of others who profess similar beliefs.
I suppose then it'd be quite justified for the British to think of all Irishmen as murderers because of the actions of the IRA.
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Again Piggy, that is not what YD is saying

If that's not what he's saying then I'm afraid I can't see what it is he is saying to be honest. It looks pretty clear to me.

If I've missed something it's because I'm reading all this rather quickly. Gotta get back to work. Very busy.
 
Re.Taking the tablets

Utter confusion reigns. Purple is being nice to me and cutting off that piggy's tail.
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Sorry YD, I'll try to attack you in my next post(just to keep things clear).
 
Re: From the sublime to the ridiculous

Gotta get back to work. Very busy.
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So, how are those new working out for you, piggy? ;)

Dr. M.
 
Re: From the sublime to the ridiculous

So, how are those new tools working out for you, piggy?

I don't know what half of them do...but everytime I visit that page I buy something new. Go figure!
 
Re: work?

I'm still not convinced that you don't do this for a living...

If Brendan wants to pay me to do this then that's his business :p
 
...what does it mean...

What does which of these guys would you choose for your President have to do with whether or not Muslims should be demonised or how we should show tolerance and treat those on our doorstep with respect?
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Well it means nothing Piggy, beyond that YD (as an average Paddy) would not choose a Muzzi fundamentalist.
Nor would I.
Nor would most people.

Maybe you would.

Thats taking PC to its illogical extreme.

PS Those on OUR doorstep should treat US with respect first!
 
Re: ...what does it mean...

Or maybe I just find the question a little silly and of no real benefit or relevance to the debate.
 
thats it piggy

Denigrate those who see the big picture and disagree with you.

The west has become complacent and may/will pay a price in the future, probably our children or grandchildren
 
Re: thats it piggy

Denigrate those who see the big picture and disagree with you.

You mean you think that choosing a hypothetical President between a Muslim and some other people of disparate religious persuasions is of relevance to any of this?

Maybe you'd like to pick a football team from a pool of Jews, Muslims and Hari-Krishna's while we're at it.

As for the big picture...that's exactly what I'm looking at. Any idea how many Muslims there are in the world? It's approximately a fifth of the world's population. The fanatics make up a tiny amount of those Muslims. The fundamentalists might wreak havoc in some areas but they are not representative of all Muslims...an idea that is being peddled in this thread from many individuals. I'm sure I'll be lambasted for even bringing this up but nobody has even bothered to raise the question as to why many of these fundamentalists exist or who created them. Who created Bin Laden for instance? Note, that I'm not trying to apportion blame for these fundamentalists to the US or anyone else...I'm merely trying to offer a realistic perspective by looking at the cause as opposed to just the effect. I fear that many here...including yourself, are only looking at the news and forming the opinion that all Muslims should be feared.

The west has become complacent and may/will pay a price in the future, probably our children or grandchildren
In what way have we become complacent exactly?
 
Re: ...what does it mean...

Those on OUR doorstep should treat US with respect first!

Provide me with the evidence that Muslims in Ireland are not treating us with the same respect we provide them.
 
Piggy asks for a lambast

You don't like my multiple choice questions. piggy, do you?

Anyway, there you go again, its not all Bin Liner's fault that he sends suicide terrorists into tall buildings.

It's not entirely a rapist's fault if women will flaunt themselves.

It's not entirely a petty criminal's fault if they have been brought up in deprived areas.

etc. etc. PC writ large!!

It is entirely due to their fundamentalist hatred of all things Western that we got 9/11. Absolutely no blame whatsoever can be implied to the US, its culture or its foreign policies.
 
Re: Piggy asks for a lambast

You don't like my multiple choice questions. piggy, do you?

Anyway, there you go again, its not all Bin Liner's fault that he sends suicide terrorists into tall buildings.

It's not entirely a rapist's fault if women will flaunt themselves.

It's not entirely a petty criminal's fault if they have been brought up in deprived areas.

I'm afraid I have a bit of a problem when you put words like this in my mouth YD. I never said anything about rape or criminals. I also qualified my statements by saying I wasn't apportioning blame to anyone. It's too simplistic to not look at the cause as well as the effect.

Your multiple choice questions tend to be very one-sided. That's what I usually have a problem with. In this case...as I said already...it just has zero relevance to the debate.
 
Oxymoron

Piggy, don't you realise that a statement which reads "I am not apportioning blame but we must look at the causes..." is a contradiction. You are clearly positing some condonement of the aggressor based on the actions or attitudes of the victims". In the case of 9/11 that is totally unacceptable.
 
Re: Oxymoron

In the case of 9/11 that is totally unacceptable
I didn't even once mention 911!

And no...I'm not saying anyone is to blame for fundamentalists :\ I'm merely saying that it's very simplistic to believe that they just looked at the West and said...hey, we hate you. There are reasons...that's all I'm saying. Most of those reasons are of course ridiculous...but we hardly help matters when we (as in the West) go invading Iraq and torturing people in prisons. How would you feel looking at that as a Muslim living in the Middle East? Note, before you go jumping to conclusions, I'm not saying that this should lead you to becoming a fundamentalist...I'm merely trying to open up the debate into the wider arena of "why" Western hostility exists.
 
piggy is the PC fundametalist

PC is/was good but like everything else too many people see it as their crusade (oops, ishpuild not have used "crusade" as I will insult some moslem somewhere)

They then become fanatics themselves and suffer from a form of "groupthink" (look it up) and believ themselve to be right all the time and have the right to judge others, castigating and denigrating them.

I would like to think that I am part of the "silent majority" and not part of either fanatical side.

Piggy should wake up and look around.
 
Re: piggy is the PC fundametalist

I think you'll find you're part of the silent minority and the more silent it stays the better for all mankind, IMO.

You might believe you're not fanatical...but your posts certainly make you sound like you are.

I don't think this debate is going anywhere anymore. It's just tit for tat.
 
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