The Terror Threat and how the US deals with it

war on terror

What of 'tolerance' in a fearless society?

Which is more tolerant : the u.s. or the typical islamic society? No contest. A country like Saudi Arabia ( which is not the most militant anti-US islamic country ) does not even allow a Christian Church anywhere within its borders. Look at how islamic countries treats its criminal, its foes, its citizens, its minorities.


All this talk by piggy of "Islamophobia" ( her word, not mine ) is a bit sickening. I think Piggy is tramping on the memories of those killed in 9/11. After the next big atrocity by Islamic terrorists, she will be the one saying why were there not more checks, why was security so lax , why did the authorities not know what was going on etc etc.

as i said already - infidels

We turn our smiling face to you while we are weak, but when we are strong you will all have a choice, convert to Islam or die.
The Quran says to go to your heathen neighbours and offer them this choice, convert or die.
The only exception ins "the people of the book" , the jews and the christians, they do not have to convert but must live under Islamic law.

Remember when we get the atomic bombs, we can all go to heaven in huge numbers.(and take you infidels with us) but not to heaven.

except for piggy as we don't like pork

bigM

I'm all for tolerance but...

We gotta be real.

America is the unquestioned only superpower in the world - capable of wreaking total devastation on any or all countries of its chosing. Bush is the most powerful man in the world. In the circumstances the level of foreign intervention is minimal and to many, even non americans, justifiable.

Just imagine for one minute that Iran was the only superpower in the world and had the means of global obliteration and whatever mad mullah is currently in charge there was the most powerful man on earth.

How would they interpret these gifts from Allah? Where would they even begin? Nuke New York for starters - all that money trading and lack of female modesty, blatant affront of the Koran. Oh and where is Rushdie hiding, probably somewhere in infidel England - nuke the whole British Isles - that will take care of that unfinished fatwah etc. etc.

Re: I'm all for tolerance but...

YD I don't really want to get back into this debate (especially since the loonies are back) but the tolerance I'm talking about refers to tolerance and understanding of Muslims in our everyday life.
The vast majority of Muslims living in Ireland are much like you and me. They may have different religious beliefs/culture and dress differently but I'll bet they're good people. I'm sure there's a few bad apples in there too, as there are everywhere. The tolerance has to start here (in Ireland)...otherwise we'll just breed hatred, the likes of which we've already seen in this thread - evidence of a lot of misguided and rather scary feelings towards fellow human beings in this country.

don't call me a looney u moron

Just cause i'm illiterate, live in a cave, talk to God and my rambling nonsense is in the Quran.

Piggy, you need to read, travel and get out a bit.

The world is stuck between a right wing, know it all, imperialistic US and a religon that is hundreds of years out of date and your naive insulting attitude helps no one and helps Bush and Iran.

At Least Bin Ladin is honest in his stated desires, its the smiling face of Islam that is the danger.

Islam + Atomic weapons and their fanaticism is the danger.
This is not the simplistic hi jacking of the 70's which was done to help the Palestine cause but thus is more far reaching and for the future much more dangerous.

Re: don't call me a looney u moron

That is not even a well thought out valid point. Piggy is right- tolerance has to start here in Ireland. How many local muslims do you know, piggy2? If the answer is none then you owe it to yourself and to humanity to go out and meet one before you tar them all with the same brush.

By the way - you sound a bit fanatical yourself. What would you do with 'The Bomb'?

"At Least Bin Ladin is honest in his stated desires&quo

Piggy2,

Please lead me to where I can see what they are.

In the Name of Allah, the Most Merciful, the Most Compassion

Muslims are also bound for one Umma/nation/Khilafah/Caliphate

Bin Laden want to restore the islamic empire of the caliph.

which include some of europe

i know lots of moslems

Some of these fled from Iran but these are the minority and hate the Islamic regimes.
But generally moslems are not loyal to the countries that adopt them and nurture them, see England,for example, and the same will happen in Ireland.

At least the immigrants that went to the US from Europe, etc wewre lyal to their adopted country.
Even the Japanese in the US (who were treated very badly by the Americans by putting them in camps) came out as loyal to their adopted country.

England and the rest should round up these fanatics and drop them on some beach in Iran.

They use our democracy and sneer at out weakness.

Honeyed words

Tolerance, Freedom, Peace - how can there be too much of these wonderful things?

2 much Tolerance: tolerance of orange marches, tolerance of Islamic customs (polygamy etc.), tolerance of some of the grossly anti social behaviour of the travelling community, tolerance of begging immigrants

2 much Freedom: Abortion, Euthanasia, Drugs, access to Guns, smoking in pubs

2 much Peace: peace at any price ala Good Friday surrender, Peace in our time ala Neville Chamberlain, peace in the Middle East by caving into Arab demands

What rambling point am I making?
Piggy and his fellow travellers are wont to use these concepts as if invoking them is an automatic endorsement of whatever particular point they making at the time - this does not necessarily follow.

Re: Honeyed words

Piggy and his fellow travellers are wont to use these concepts as if invoking them is an automatic endorsement of whatever particular point they making at the time - this does not necessarily follow.

I see. So you think then that my point about treating Muslims in Ireland with respect and not tarring them all with the same brush doesn't make sense?

Or do you believe the guy above you and the general hatred being bred against all Muslims in this thread?

The point I'm making is pretty clear to be honest YD. Why am I not surprised you're missing it!?! I'm not talking about too much of this, that or the other. I'm talking about basic respect for people when they haven't done anything wrong. If you can't see that all the anti-Muslim crap in this thread sounds a lot like (dare I say it) the anti-semetic rubbish that some nameless countries have adopted in the not so distant past to demonise Jewish people as evil, then this particular debate goes nowhere from here for me. I can't be bothered trying to debate with the guy who hates Muslims anymore. He's got his own problems.

that it piggy

they are all wrong except you

What name shall I pick next...?

" they are all wrong except you "

You mean "he"...i pray to the lord This post will be deleted if not edited immediately there are not this many losers in the world

All of the above.

well I've been away and now that I'm back for a brief look I'm amazed to see some kind of enlightenment has occurred here.

It appears I am no longer the voice crying in the wilderness. Someone else has a handle on the muslim thing.

Where were you this last 6 months Piggy2, while I was here alone battling the Infidels!
Were you hiding your light under a bushel?

Welcome aboard. You're doing a good job.
Keep on truckin'.

a catch 22?

England and the rest should round up these fanatics and drop them on some beach in Iran.

Click to expand...

That’s not a very constructive comment really is it? How do you define what a fanatic is and who then decides whom amongst the population falls within that definition? The laws and invasion of privacy required to do that would do more to take away the freedoms and values that we hold dear than any bomb or terrorist attack.
If we go down that path then Bin Laden and his ilk have won.

We gotta be real.

America is the unquestioned only superpower in the world - capable of wreaking total devastation on any or all countries of its chosing. Bush is the most powerful man in the world

Click to expand...

Tht' a good point, the US lives in the real world, we don't.
They also stand for freedom and justice and if they throw away the rule book we are all lost. I don’t think anyone here would say that America is as bad as any of the Arab governments in the middle east. The fact is that they set the bar much higher for themselves than any of their enemies, people are just concerned that they live up to those standards.

Piggy and his fellow travellers are wont to use these concepts as if invoking them is an automatic endorsement of whatever particular point they making at the time - this does not necessarily follow

Click to expand...

Taking the personalised element out of that comment it is really a good point as well, in the context of how both sides present their respective arguments here.
Both the pro and anti Muslim camps( a bad generalisation I know, but it’s late) are warning of the dangers posed to western standards of freedom and universal justice by the ideas, ideals and policies proposed by the other camp.
One side says that if you do not apply the principals of tolerance and the presumption of innosence to all then those principals are meaningless.
The other says that if you apply those principals to all then your enemies will see them as a weakness and use them against you.

The problem as I see it is that both sides are right.
Like most things in life; if there was an easy fix it would be fixed.

Re: a catch 22?

Very good summation Purple.
The problem with some individuals on this board is there point of view is the ONLY correct one and they refuse to even listen to others an then get personal.

Everyone's point of view should count, far right, far left and the most in the middle.
I use the far right/left to indicated polarised views in any topic.

0]

Re: a catch 22?

On the subject of Muslims and whether we should fear and demonise them all you'll have to forgive me if I don't think it's a far right/ far left argument. I'm not coming from any far left viewpoint...unless not judging billions of people by the actions of a few is judged as being far left.

From the sublime to the ridiculous

This is all getting a bit cerebral for me. I'm just a humble guy who relies on common sense.

Other things being equal if I was asked to chose between a Muslim, a fundamentalist Christian, an Atheist or a "slightly agnostic was brought up Christian" (that's me) for President, I would always go for the last. I just don't trust the inherent irrational fanaticism of the others.

Yes that is prejudice - a much maligned word - often we do not have sufficient knowledge of a person to "post judge" them and so we are forced to "pre judge" them based on the actions of others who profess similar beliefs.

Re: From the sublime to the ridiculous

Other things being equal if I was asked to chose between a Muslim, a fundamentalist Christian, an Atheist or a "slightly agnostic was brought up Christian" (that's me) for President, I would always go for the last. I just don't trust the inherent irrational fanaticism of the others

Why do you have to choose one of them?

often we do not have sufficient knowledge of a person to "post judge" them and so we are forced to "pre judge" them based on the actions of others who profess similar beliefs.
I suppose then it'd be quite justified for the British to think of all Irishmen as murderers because of the actions of the IRA. After all they were all over the news for so many years. So if the news is showing us all these Irishmen who kill people in the name of freedom then all Irishmen must be the same. Common sense eh!!!?

the IRA is not = fundamental ISlam

I hate the IRA because of their callous campaign and thier sickening attempt top justify it but Inever feared that they would let off an atomic or BIO weapon so they could go as martyrs, taking millions of us with them.

This is not a war against Islam or Muslims but against fundamentalists who because of ignorance are blindly supported by a huge number of muslims.

The IRA or ETA, black panthers,Red Faction or whatever were just a minority among their people hence not much support.

The problem with the moslems, you can take them in and give them a home, but if called by some lunatic in the middle east, these same moslems and their Irish sons and daughters will fly out and kill Irish Peace Keeping Troops and rejoice in it. See England
Or set off bombs in Irish public transport - see Spain.
Or slaughter people in work - see 9/11

And all for nothing, a group no matter how large and fanatical will not bring down a county.

They can bomb London or New York and these countries will survive and go on.

But the threat must be dealt with and people are kidding themselves otherwise.

The smiling face is turned now while they are weak but if they were strong, things would be different.

Read my book and see the word.

the big M