Russian Foreign Policy

[tecate]

Rubbish. I reject your trap. Pointless continuing with someone who deals in muddying the waters, red herrings and sideshows and nothing more. They establish nothing.

My trap!? Yes, very devious of me - to insist that you respond to points that are highly relevant to the overall topic given that you have glossed over them.

These are the points that matters not your sideshow questions.

Of course they are what 'matters' because you have installed yourself as the arbitrar of what matters and what doesn't apparently.


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EDIT - I see this notification below -> "You have insufficient privileges to reply here"

...so with that I can't respond to any post from #502 onwards. Vlad, is that you? It must be you Vlad - you're the only one that runs this type of censorship. Everyone else is pure as snow. If it's not you, I'm a lucky sod. You'd throw me in the gulags for sure - AAM admin will just prevent me from free speech. They're much nicer than you, Vlad - you brute!
We should overlook their cognitive dissonance as clearly they engage in or enable censorship in a far more gentlemanly way. I guess that's why they support regime change in a gentlemanly way, meddling in the affairs of other nations in a gentlemanly way and facilitating slaughter in Iraq, Libya, Afghanistan, etc. A lifetime of accepting agenda-driven mainstream media narrative unquestioningly means the ( cognitive dissonance ) force is strong with them.

However, it's the greatest compliment of all - the fact that the only way you can attempt to get the upper hand is to opt for the unethical censorship option.

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[Duke of Marmalade]

Duke, I disagree. Russia has a rubbish economy and I believe that's not going to change any day soon. However, they occupy a giant land mass - within which exists all manner of natural resources. They'll continue to exist off the back of those resources for many years to come.
How would piling in to Ukraine change their economy anyway? Their economy is a basket case as they're not a fully open economy and they're simply not at the races in terms of competing internationally.

Ahh! You're missing my point. Possibly a bit nuanced. The only threat to the Olies is from within. It must be quite alarming for them to see how EU membership has been so beneficial to the Baltic states. But if Ukraine became a successful economic model then the internal rumblings in Russia could become irresistible. I think they expected a 1956 Hungary or 1968 Czechoslavakia, a one day bloodless mission to bring them into line.

 

[odyssey06]

If you are on Twitter this is an interesting account to follow... a mix of spoof Putin tweets and nail on the head tweets eg

"Day 33 of my 3 day war. It's going so well I had to prove my defense minister hasn't been executed for botching the war. I remain a master strategist."

"The West humiliated Russia in post cold war years by treating our former colonies as actual countries, not as buffer states with limited sovereignty who have to ask Russia for permission in their foreign affairs. This is not imperialist."

https://mobile.twitter.com/DarthPutinKGB

 

[Firefly]

Across the European Union and Britain, Russia’s invasion of Ukraine is reshaping state spending priorities and forcing governments to prepare for threats thought to have been long buried.

The result is a sudden reshuffling of budgets as military spending, humanitarian assistance and essentials like agriculture and energy are shoved to the front of the line, with other pressing needs like education and social services likely to be downgraded.


Nicolae Ciuca, a retired general from Romania:
“We never thought we’d need to go back to the Cold War and consider potassium iodine again,”

Live Updates: As Talks Progress, Russia Says It Will Reduce Attacks in Northern Ukraine

The gains in negotiations came as Ukrainian troops appeared to push back Russian forces around Kyiv. Russia said a meeting between President Vladimir V. Putin and President Volodymyr Zelensky could occur once a draft peace agreement was ready.

www.nytimes.com

 

[odyssey06]

Across the European Union and Britain, Russia’s invasion of Ukraine is reshaping state spending priorities and forcing governments to prepare for threats thought to have been long buried.

The result is a sudden reshuffling of budgets as military spending, humanitarian assistance and essentials like agriculture and energy are shoved to the front of the line, with other pressing needs like education and social services likely to be downgraded.

NATO was withering on the vine until this. To imagine there was some master plot to threaten Russia using Ukraine when all Putin had to do was not rock the boat and NATO in Europe would be a paper tiger in a decade. Look at the German military and how few US troops were based east of Germany until Russia started its invasions.

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

Also America had lost its significance exemplified by The Donald. It wasn’t just Wallace and Daly who were anti US. We suddenly are reminded that our whole way of life relies on American protection.

 

[Purple]

You're making an assumption that this is something that I want. It's not - but it's the reality. And it's always been the reality when it comes to dominant powers. Pull up a list of wars and you'll see how many of them have been proxy wars - as is this one.

You've made the same suggestion about Greenwald but I don't see where in his article there's a suggestion that he wants this - although he recognises it as the reality.

I've made numerous substantive points and you have chosen not to reply to most of them. You are of course perfectly entitled not to but there's very little point in me replying to any more of your posts.

Your tactic it to get bogged down in small vague points based on some sort of moral relativity as a way of deflecting from the larger issue of right and wrong, who is the protagonist and what is being fought for.

The fact is that Russia is the protagonist in what is a war between democracy and totalitarianism. The rest is irrelevant within that broader context.

The fact that larger countries have historically invaded their neighbours and imposed their will on them is a reality. Such actions are morally wrong and against the law. That is also a reality. We did not worry that the UK would invade us because we chose not to leave the EU when thy did. That's the way it should be. That's the way it is between free countries in the free world. That is the context of Russia's war against Ukraine.

The argument that an expression of collective free will by the people of Ukraine is a justification for Russia's invasion is nonsense. I would respectfully suggest to other posters that getting dragged into the mire by you deflects from that overarching point and adds nothing to the discussion.

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

Well said. To my embarrassment I think my contact rate with @tecate is higher than any other contributor but you are spot on about his evasive and selective engagement. I should learn.

 

[Firefly]

Interesting article here, suggesting that Putin didn't miscalculate the invasion of Ukraine and "never intended to conquer all of Ukraine: that, from the beginning, his real targets were the energy riches of Ukraine’s east, which contain Europe’s second-largest known reserves of natural gas (after Norway’s)."

Opinion | What if Putin Didn’t Miscalculate? (Published 2022)

It’s always wiser to treat an adversary as a canny fox, not a crazy fool.

www.nytimes.com

 

[michaelm]

The fact is that Russia is the protagonist in what is a war between democracy and totalitarianism. The rest is irrelevant within that broader context.

Being a fan of brevity, for me, the quote above gets to the nub of the situation.

 

[Purple]

Interesting article here, suggesting that Putin didn't miscalculate the invasion of Ukraine and "never intended to conquer all of Ukraine: that, from the beginning, his real targets were the energy riches of Ukraine’s east, which contain Europe’s second-largest known reserves of natural gas (after Norway’s)."

Opinion | What if Putin Didn’t Miscalculate? (Published 2022)

It’s always wiser to treat an adversary as a canny fox, not a crazy fool.

www.nytimes.com

Given that Russia has no real trading economy outside primary products that seems like a very rational plan and in that context the Wests plan of support for Ukraine without escalation plays into Putin's hands.
He has to keep energy hungry Europe starved of alternative supplies. His strategy in Syria is quite obviously informed by that need. Why would his war in Ukraine be any different?

An alternative large supply of Natural Gas to Europe is an existential threat to the existence of Russia in anything close to it's present form.

 

[Firefly]

The top UN human rights official Michelle "..Bachelet said that her office, which deploys nearly 60 UN human rights monitors in Ukraine, had verified 77 incidents in which medical facilities were damaged, including 50 hospitals."

“Indiscriminate attacks are prohibited under international humanitarian law and may amount to war crimes,” she said.

Russia may be committing war crimes in Ukraine, UN human rights chief says

Michelle Bachelet says destruction of civilian infrastructure indicates rules of war have ‘not been sufficiently adhered to’

www.theguardian.com

 

[Leper]

I hear on RTE's radio news today that Putin is not being advised of the true situation regarding losses in the invasion. Apparently, even his military advisors are afraid to fall foul of him.

Add the Russian propaganda machine to that and we have a conflict that likely will last a long time.

War Crimes:- It will be difficult to indict him. Furthermore, his henchmen in war crimes might never face The Hague either as Putin will not extradite them (Source BBC news). But, potential war criminals can be arrested in airports outside of Russia if they are travelling.

Let's not get hung up on posters here supplying different points of view. To be honest, I find some of the Ukraine claims difficult to believe. But, I believe Zelensky over Putin. The former plays the media and the latter runs his media.

 

[Purple]

I hear on RTE's radio news today that Putin is not being advised of the true situation regarding losses in the invasion. Apparently, even his military advisors are afraid to fall foul of him.

I find that hard to believe. There's a strong attempt to frame Putin as Hitler in the Führerbunker in 1945. It doesn't serve the truth to do so.

War Crimes:- It will be difficult to indict him. Furthermore, his henchmen in war crimes might never face The Hague either as Putin will not extradite them (Source BBC news). But, potential war criminals can be arrested in airports outside of Russia if they are travelling.

There's almost no chance that he will face War Crimes charges. The American's can't really make an issue of it since they don't and won't send their people to the Hague.

To be honest, I find some of the Ukraine claims difficult to believe. But, I believe Zelensky over Putin. The former plays the media and the latter runs his media.

Well said.

 

[Purple]

EDIT - I see this notification below -> "You have insufficient privileges to reply here"

...so with that I can't respond to any post from #502 onwards. Vlad, is that you? It must be you Vlad - you're the only one that runs this type of censorship. Everyone else is pure as snow. If it's not you, I'm a lucky sod. You'd throw me in the gulags for sure - AAM admin will just prevent me from free speech. They're much nicer than you, Vlad - you brute!
We should overlook their cognitive dissonance as clearly they engage in or enable censorship in a far more gentlemanly way. I guess that's why they support regime change in a gentlemanly way, meddling in the affairs of other nations in a gentlemanly way and facilitating slaughter in Iraq, Libya, Afghanistan, etc. A lifetime of accepting agenda-driven mainstream media narrative unquestioningly means the ( cognitive dissonance ) force is strong with them.

However, it's the greatest compliment of all - the fact that the only way you can attempt to get the upper hand is to opt for the unethical censorship option.

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I find it hard to take people seriously who use the phrase "mainstream media".
It's just the media. Someone ranting on Twitter or YouTube or Facebook or whatever is not a comparable source. "The media" is made up of organisations with Editors and Journalists and Editorial Boards who are liable under the law for what they say and publish.
You can watch CNN and Sky News and Aljazeera and between them all you'll get the truth. You can read the New York Times and the Daily Telegraph and the Guardian and a few more and between them you'll get the truth.

One of the positives to come out of this conflict is the reframing of our relationship with the USA. The whiny immature man-children who still have posters of terrorists like Che Guevara and Fidel Castro on their walls, who admire murdering terrorist organisations like the PLO and Hamas and adopt a blindly anti-American and anti-Israeli stance have been shown to be the complete idiots that they are.
For all its many faults, and despite all of the appalling things they have done, I am very glad that America is the most powerful country in the world and is willing to bleed to protect our freedom, despite the fact that we aren't.

 

[Firefly]

War Crimes:- It will be difficult to indict him. Furthermore, his henchmen in war crimes might never face The Hague either as Putin will not extradite them (Source BBC news). But, potential war criminals can be arrested in airports outside of Russia if they are travelling.

I don't think Putin will ever face the Hague, but it will probably mean he will be a pariah on the international stage long after this war ends and sanctions are eased

 

[Firefly]

BRUSSELS — Despite Russian statements that it would radically reduce its military activity around Kyiv, Ukraine’s capital, to concentrate on the war in eastern Ukraine, Western governments see little evidence of that, Jens Stoltenberg, the NATO secretary-general, told a news conference on Thursday.

“According to our intelligence, Russian units are not withdrawing but repositioning,” he said, echoing the views of the U.S. and British governments. “Russia is trying to regroup, resupply and reinforce its offensive in the Donbas region” in eastern Ukraine, Mr. Stoltenberg said.

“At the same time, Russia maintains pressure on Kyiv and other cities, so, we can expect additional offensive actions, bringing even more suffering,” he said.
Mr. Stoltenberg cautioned skepticism about Russian statements about its plans. “Russia has repeatedly lied about its intentions,” he said. “So we can only judge Russia on its actions, not on its words.”

What Happened on Day 36 of Russia’s Invasion of Ukraine

Humanitarian officials were trying to organize an evacuation from Mariupol. U.S. officials said Russia was running its military campaign out of Moscow, with no central war commander in Ukraine to call the shots.

www.nytimes.com

 

[odyssey06]

Reports that Russians soldiers pulling back from Chernobyl and some have been taken for radiation treatment... Darwin awards incoming.

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

Finn McRedmond of the IT echoes the Tool today in saying we should not demonise Russian artists. Fair enough, but the fact remains that Putin is the most popular leader amongst his people in Europe and his popularity has soared since the invasion. Somewhat similar to a moustachioed Austrian gent in the 1930s. The populace can’t be exonerated of all blame.

 

[odyssey06]

Finn McRedmond of the IT echoes the Tool today in saying we should not demonise Russian artists. Fair enough, but the fact remains that Putin is the most popular leader amongst his people in Europe and his popularity has soared since the invasion. Somewhat similar to a moustachioed Austrian gent in the 1930s. The populace can’t be exonerated of all blame.

There has to be consequences for Russian people in all this. Not demonised but they need to get the message.