Duke of Marmalade
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So you think it reduces Putin's guilt if he was only intending to throw his weight around but took the hump at Western goading? Unbelievable moral compass there.Ah, yes - we should trust them! Give them free license and don't hold them to account. Brilliant Duke. And you say this and you still have no notion at what point Putin decided to invade.
Givuz a break! Apologies for Godwin's Law but WWII would have been avoided if only they kept appeasing the Fuhrer.You think if a war could have been avoided and wasn't, that's reasonable?
He believes this situation has come about because the Democrats are seeking revenge for the 2016 election result. In conscience he would be bound to support the Russian special mission along with Belarus, NK, Eritrea and Syria. But you are right, these beauts probably made their vote for different reasons than any conspiracy theory around the 2016 election. Anyway, I am taking it that your on the ground experience did not reveal any Nazi activity, but you may correct that if I have it wrong.I think you've got this the wrong way round. The question I asked you was where did Greenwald say he agreed with Belarus - as you claimed?
His sexual orientation is very relevant in the context of the courageous stand they are both taking against Bolsonaro. I was trying to show how open minded I was.Yes, the usual tar and feathering - like his sexual orientation or views on vaccination have anything to do with this. I'd expect nothing less from you Duke.
I believe Greenwald's lies and conspiracy theories pre-date this war."The first casualty of war is truth"
Hold on. You are one peddling conspiracy theories about bioweapons. I have linked to multiple articles debunking them, and your response is they contain nothing substantive!The article that 'I won;t engage with'? I read your article - there is nothing substantive in it in disspelling the claim re. bioweapons labs. And other than that, you're telling me that the WaPo is now a publication that acts on behalf of Russia and that they're 'repeating conspiracy theories' - despite the bulk of their readership having similar views to yourself? Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
As regards Greenwald, who said I accept his views without question? I introduced that article of his to add perspective here. And as for conspiracy theories, other than the biolab issue (which in no way can you dismiss summarily like you're trying to do), what other 'conspiracy theory' does he present? He presents his opinion and like yours and everyone elses, there's an inherrent bias in his opinion.
Saying there must be a division of blame in all cases is as wrong as saying in all cases only one party in the wrong.The Americans gave assurrances that there would be no encroachment of NATO to the east after the fall of the Soviet Union. Bush explicitly gave such an assurance. Meanwhile, you think if there were missiles pointed at the US from Mexico, they'd be ok with it? Well we know that they would lose their bloody minds ( Cuban missile crisis ) - and take us to the brink of nuclear war.
Many have been warning that this was an issue - over years. It takes two to tango - but apparently according to all that have posted on this thread, it's much more simple - one party can do no wrong and another can do no right.
You're making an assumption that this is something that I want. It's not - but it's the reality. And it's always been the reality when it comes to dominant powers. Pull up a list of wars and you'll see how many of them have been proxy wars - as is this one.You and Greenwald may think that countries should be pawns of the board of colonial powers but the Free World disagrees with you and has done for over 70 years.
whataboutism? It's not good enough to give one party a free license without any question or concern because the governance in place relative to the other party is abhorrent.It does seem to be the case alright, no more so than in Russia, where you can end up in jail for 15 years for spreading what it described as "fake" information about the military. Of course, "fake" means anything going against the party line. International and local journalists have shut up shop, leaving the poor Russian people with only state-controlled propaganda for their "news".
I've never commented on Putin's guilt. Time and time again, you and others are trying to suggest that I present here as pro-Putin and pro-Russia - that's not the case. Many commentators suggested that the build up was part of tactics to negotiate agreement. Whatever you think of Putin, it makes complete sense that there would be some attempts for parties to reach consensus.So you think it reduces Putin's guilt if he was only intending to throw his weight around but took the hump at Western goading? Unbelievable moral compass there.
I have no intention of giving you a break. You have no notion of matters being as clearcut as you (and the rest of them here) present them to be. NATO has always been about facing off against Russia. Assurances were given by the Americans that they wouldn't expand eastwards. They lied/chose to disregard that commitment. It's been flagged for years as an issue - it's been discussed for years as an issue. It seems Bidens policy was to continue that expansion - and this is the result.Givuz a break! Apologies for Godwin's Law but WWII would have been avoided if only they kept appeasing the Fuhrer.
BS. You're twisting what he wrote to meet your own narrative. He never said that he supports Belarus.He believes this situation has come about because the Democrats are seeking revenge for the 2016 election result. In conscience he would be bound to support the Russian special mission along with Belarus, NK, Eritrea and Syria. But you are right, these beauts probably made their vote for different reasons than any conspiracy theory around the 2016 election.
Someone else may be buying the horsecrap you're selling but I certainly am not. There is no context in which it was relevant to bring that up.His sexual orientation is very relevant in the context of the courageous stand they are both taking against Bolsonaro. I was trying to show how open minded I was.
Translation - the questions this guy poses are inconvenient to my beliefs here - let me scavange and come back with whatever dirt I can to discredit him - ah, he's gay - that will probably trigger someones bias.I believe Greenwald's lies and conspiracy theories pre-date this war.
A couple of things:Not too difficult to see who the bad guys are in this awful tragedy
I'm not much of a fan of RTE but are you suggesting it is under anyway near the same level of control as Russian state media?As regards state controlled media, I agree - RTE should have been disbanded years ago although their patron keeps funding them.
Nobody else is invading another country at the moment and pretending they are going after Nazis!That Russia doesn't veil that and takes it to an authoritarian extreme doesn't mean that there isn't misinformation elsewhere.
Lies & restricting the truth, so far from Russia, that I can think of:Afterall, you did agree with the statement -> 'The first casualty of war is truth'.
I agree, but why not start another thread on it?A couple of things:
1. That atrocities are carried out by one party doesn't mean that we give an automatic free pass to the other party, never holding them to account for their actions.
Firstly, this "pasting this heart-wrenching coverage across all media channels" is people being slaughtered by Russia and their homes & cities destroyed.2. The media that you're all triggered by are pasting this heart-wrenching coverage across all media channels. Where was that in relation to ...
IRAQ
LIbya
Afghanistan
True, apologies. I meant Greenwald. So you are only posting his deranged conspiracy theories to stir up the "echo chamber" as you call it. I won't come all self righteous and accuse you of making a plaything of a deadly serious situation. I suppose I should be glad that you don't identify with his mad cap theories, excepting of course his views on bitcoin.I've never commented on Putin's guilt. Time and time again, you and others are trying to suggest that I present here as pro-Putin and pro-Russia - that's not the case.
I'm not getting how this all doesn't fit together under the same topic.I agree, but why not start another thread on it?
You make my point for me. Greenwald made exactly the same point when he stated this:Firstly, this "pasting this heart-wrenching coverage across all media channels" is people being slaughtered by Russia and their homes & cities destroyed.
Secondly, I notice the absense of Syria in your list, which is unusual as it's quite recent
Eureka! It was much better covered. I wonder why! Have a think about it and come back to me.Secondly, I notice the absense of Syria in your list, which is unusual as it's quite recent
I thought you only posted on Bitcon & cryptos...where is anyone "time and time again" try to suggest that you are pro-Russia????Time and time again, you and others are trying to suggest that I present here as pro-Putin and pro-Russia - that's not the case.
I'm not. What I am doing is going out of my way to get it across to you that bias exists in all media - and that bias will go up the way if said media is under the direct control of someone or beholden to them financially in order to exist.I'm not much of a fan of RTE but are you suggesting it is under anyway near the same level of control as Russian state media?
Yes, and the inferrence here is that we don't need to consider this any further - give the US free license to do whatever they want, disregard what they might have stoked back in 2014, disregard their expansionist policies via NATO, disregard Hunter Biden's biolabs, disregard everything and lose all ability to look at this thing objectively. That seems to me to be what everyone is going on with here.Lies & restricting the truth, so far from Russia, that I can think of:
I'll ignore the unproven allegations against Greenwald. As regards 'stirring up' the echo chamber, I guess I'm not the brightest spark. In my innocence I thought that another perspective would be welcomed here. I should have known better.So you are only posting his deranged conspiracy theories to stir up the "echo chamber" as you call it. I won't come all self righteous and accuse you of making a plaything of a deadly serious situation. I suppose I should be glad that you don't identify with his mad cap theories, excepting of course his views on bitcoin.
Time and time again within this thread - post after post.I thought you only posted on Bitcon & cryptos...where is anyone "time and time again" try to suggest that you are pro-Russia????
The claims about bioweapons in ukraine are without foundation. You have nothing to substantiate them.Firstly, I asked you to comment on the WaPo article that found that the US public was being lied to about this specific issue. That's now verified after months and months of lies. Address that!
As regards your 'debunking' article - it's no different than a post from you saying "there are no biolabs". What else did it provide? By contrast, the WaPo article confirms evidence of deceit in relation to the issue.
YOU started with the 'fake news' claims. The WaPo article states that it - and other mainstream media have to take responsibility for disinformation. Respond to that please.
Firstly, nobody said that there 'must' be a division of blame - but more often than not, there is. Governments responsibilities to people as a very basic should be to prevent war in the first place.
On formal agreements, they're fine Odyssey06 when they suit the narrative and not so when they don't. Are you denying that the US provided assurances that there would be no expansion into eastern europe? Answer that before we go any further.
Secondly, you think if tomorrow, Russia got together with Mexico and decided to put in various weaponry that there wouldn't be a problem? We already know the answer to that because on that occasion, it put us on the brink of nuclear war. It's double standards.
I think you're too far gone, old friend. As I've said before, it may not be perfect, but I thank my lucky stars I live many miles west of Russian influenceI'm not. What I am doing is going out of my way to get it across to you that bias exists in all media - and that bias will go up the way if said media is under the direct control of someone or beholden to them financially in order to exist.
Yes, and the inferrence here is that we don't need to consider this any further - give the US free license to do whatever they want, disregard what they might have stoked back in 2014, disregard their expansionist policies via NATO, disregard Hunter Biden's biolabs, disregard everything and lose all ability to look at this thing objectively. That seems to me to be what everyone is going on with here.
RightTime and time again within this thread - post after post.
You're missinterpreting my view. All day long I'm not down with an authoritative regime. However, we shouldn't let that allow everyone to lose complete perspective....or to hand a free license to someone to do what they want.I think you're too far gone, old friend. As I've said before, it may not be perfect, but I thank my lucky stars I live many miles west of Russian influence
Rubbish. I reject your trap. Pointless continuing with someone who deals in muddying the waters, red herrings and sideshows and nothing more. They establish nothing.@odyssey06 : There are a couple of outstanding matters before we go any further - queries that remain unanswered:
1. Address the WaPo article. Were lies told or not? Is this article from the WaPo 'fake news'.
2. Was the US meddling in Ukraine in 2014?
3. Did the US give assurances repeatedly that there would be no expansion of NATO into eastern Europe?
Answer those and we can continue
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