Pub Sector get 12 days unpaid leave, where are the following years cuts to come from?

Re: Pub Sector get 12 days unpaid leave, where are the following years cuts to come f

sandrat said:
Anyway my suggestion is that everyone is moved back to the previous pay scale on their incremental scale and that there are no increments for 2 years then increments are given every 2 years instead of every year if someone has reached their targets set out in PMDS. I would also be willing to work 40 hours a week instead of 35 for the same money therefore increasing the access to services at no extra cost. This push back in the incremental scale should apply to people on public sector pensions too and another saving could be made there.
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Hi Sandrat

This is actually being discussed on another thread and I was making the point that some increments are bigger than others so if I had got one of the bigger increments in 2007 and a small one in 2008 and someone a year behind me on the scale had got the bigger increment in 2008, they would lose more pay than me. That just wouldn't be fair.
 
Re: Pub Sector get 12 days unpaid leave, where are the following years cuts to come f

sandrat said:
Anyway my suggestion is that everyone is moved back to the previous pay scale on their incremental scale and that there are no increments for 2 years then increments are given every 2 years instead of every year if someone has reached their targets set out in PMDS. I would also be willing to work 40 hours a week instead of 35 for the same money therefore increasing the access to services at no extra cost. This push back in the incremental scale should apply to people on public sector pensions too and another saving could be made there.
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Fair play Sandrat - out of curiousity, why aren't you in the union? is there not huge pressure for PS workers to join a union? I assumed almost every PS worker was in a union.
 
Re: Pub Sector get 12 days unpaid leave, where are the following years cuts to come f

In fairness I think it is just about as fair as we are going to get. If people's salaries are less then they will pay less tax and levies. I know it wouldn't kill me to go back to what I was earning this time last year because I survived on it with last years prices.

With regards to the people who are at the top of the scale having to move back to what they were earning 5 years ago maybe something else needs to be done where they would be reduced by 1/2 of the difference in scale or something. The unpaid leave thing won't work where I work because it will result in reduced opening hours to the public.
 
Re: Pub Sector get 12 days unpaid leave, where are the following years cuts to come f

Teatime said:
Fair play Sandrat - out of curiousity, why aren't you in the union? is there not huge pressure for PS workers to join a union? I assumed almost every PS worker was in a union.
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I was never approached to join the union and I have seen unions screw people over in the past so wasn't interested in joining anyway. I don't know anyone who voted yes for last weeks industrial action but it went ahead anyway. I'd rather see my union fees in my pocket. In fact since the unions are making such a hames of things maybe everyone should quit the union to make up the difference in take home pay?
 
Re: Pub Sector get 12 days unpaid leave, where are the following years cuts to come f

This option isn’t equitable. People have different increment dates so if they decide to implement this from 1st January what about people who received an increment on the 31st December – they will not suffer any loss. Then there are staff who are on their max for 10+ years.

Then there are staff don't get increments, existing Consultants and senior HSE managers for example. New consultants do have a scale but most are on the first point, so no savings there.

Also from an admin point of view it would be a nightmare to implement.
 
Re: Pub Sector get 12 days unpaid leave, where are the following years cuts to come f

I think it is a lot easier to implement than the unpaid leave option. If staff aren't on a scale then give them a percentage cut. The savings will be there because at the moment the consultants on the first point will be due an increment but by freezing increments we are making savings. Its not about making people suffer losses if someone is due an increment of say 2000 on 31st december and we cancel that thhen thats 2000 the government has saved are you saying they should save more so that the person can suffer? They might suffer if they had planned spending that money on something but the country's bank balance will suffer if something isn't done.
 
Re: Pub Sector get 12 days unpaid leave, where are the following years cuts to come f

becky said:
This option isn’t equitable. People have different increment dates so if they decide to implement this from 1st January what about people who received an increment on the 31st December – they will not suffer any loss. Then there are staff who are on their max for 10+ years.

Then there are staff don't get increments, existing Consultants and senior HSE managers for example. New consultants do have a scale but most are on the first point, so no savings there.

Also from an admin point of view it would be a nightmare to implement.
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I'd have thought it would be easy enought to implement since the majority are paid on a scale simply drop them to the previous piont?

Would it be easier to implement if there salaries were just brought back to what they were earning on a given date 01/01/2008.

No one is saying that this will be a push a button job and some work may have to go into it but it's a good option to have alongside scaled salary cuts.
 
Re: Pub Sector get 12 days unpaid leave, where are the following years cuts to come f

sandrat said:
I was never approached to join the union and I have seen unions screw people over in the past so wasn't interested in joining anyway. I don't know anyone who voted yes for last weeks industrial action but it went ahead anyway. I'd rather see my union fees in my pocket. In fact since the unions are making such a hames of things maybe everyone should quit the union to make up the difference in take home pay?
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I think I'm in love.
 
Re: Pub Sector get 12 days unpaid leave, where are the following years cuts to come f

I really can't see inequitable cuts being a solution. I know it's important to save money but it has to be done fairly. Morale is already very low and I don't think this would help. You could end up with people on lower salaries taking a bigger percentage cut.
 
Re: Pub Sector get 12 days unpaid leave, where are the following years cuts to come f

liaconn said:
I really can't see inequitable cuts being a solution. I know it's important to save money but it has to be done fairly. Morale is already very low and I don't think this would help. You could end up with people on lower salaries taking a bigger percentage cut.
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Percentage persmentage, if you earn what you were earning this time last year it can't be that bad because you were able to live on it last year and the prices of things have gone down since that.
 
Re: Pub Sector get 12 days unpaid leave, where are the following years cuts to come f

sandrat said:
I I don't know anyone who voted yes for last weeks industrial action but it went ahead anyway.
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What Union is this? Did they not have to have a mandate to go ahead with Industrial Action?
 
Re: Pub Sector get 12 days unpaid leave, where are the following years cuts to come f

sandrat said:
Percentage persmentage, if you earn what you were earning this time last year it can't be that bad because you were able to live on it last year and the prices of things have gone down since that.
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A lot of lower paid Civil Servants were already getting into difficulties last year. What you are suggesting means they could end up taking a bigger percentage cuts than better paid Public Servants. This would just not work as a policy. You just couldn't present it in the terms you've stated above.
 
Re: Pub Sector get 12 days unpaid leave, where are the following years cuts to come f

liaconn said:
What Union is this? Did they not have to have a mandate to go ahead with Industrial Action?
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I'm not saying that but maybe the people I know are not the people who vote for this kind of ill advised industrial action when the public are already made to hate us enough with the private vs public sector debates in the media.
 
Re: Pub Sector get 12 days unpaid leave, where are the following years cuts to come f

liaconn said:
A lot of lower paid Civil Servants were already getting into difficulties last year. What you are suggesting means they could end up taking a bigger percentage cuts than better paid Public Servants. This would just not work as a policy. You just couldn't present it in the terms you've stated above.
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Can you give me an example salary scale where some increments are bigger than others?
 
Re: Pub Sector get 12 days unpaid leave, where are the following years cuts to come f

TheBlock said:
Would it be easier to implement if there salaries were just brought back to what they were earning on a given date 01/01/2008.
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I think that would relatively easy to implement.
There is no doubt that there would anomolies to be ironed out but that is going to be the case in any solution.
What are the alternatives?

An across the board pay cut of 6.85%. I think that would be the last resort for most publice servants.

A staggered pay cut of say 2% under 50K, 4% 50-80K etc. Some people will argue that why should lower earners get a smaller % cut when in the good times everyone got the same % pay rises?

The unpaid leave option. A lot of peole I work with think it will be difficult to operate and it means that everyone regardless of grade will take the same leave off i.e. same & cut in salaries. In this case lower earners they are being hit unfairly.

At least with a step back in increments it is temporary and if some takes a larger drop now because of the differences in incremental scales, they will get a bigger rise when the conditions are right for increments to be re-introduced.
 
Re: Pub Sector get 12 days unpaid leave, where are the following years cuts to come f

I'd have thought it would be easy enought to implement since the majority are paid on a scale simply drop them to the previous piont?

We have a massive payroll here and it would have to be done manually for each category by HR and payroll.

Would it be easier to implement if there salaries were just brought back to what they were earning on a given date 01/01/2008.

Yes this is a much easier option and the one I'd pick.

The unpaid option would have been an easy enough option to implement if it was to apply across the board. I sign time sheets every week for my staff so I just return them as unpaid leave for the day in question.
 
Re: Pub Sector get 12 days unpaid leave, where are the following years cuts to come f

sandrat said:
Can you give me an example salary scale where some increments are bigger than others?
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I just had a quick look at the civil service salary scales for a couple of grades.

For a CO, there is a 4.6% increase from the 1st to 2nd point, but only a 1.6% increase from second last to last.

For EO there is a 7.6% increase from 1st to 2nd point, and 3.3 % increase from second last to last.

So there is differences but if somone drops 4.6% now compared to 1.6% it might be deemed unfair, but when they get their increment back they will increase 4.6% whereas a colleague might only increase 1.6%.

It is not perfect, but at least the salary scale stays the same and everyone will get a chance to real the top of the scale, albeit a little longer than would have expected.
 
Re: Pub Sector get 12 days unpaid leave, where are the following years cuts to come f

sandrat said:
I think it is a lot easier to implement than the unpaid leave option. If staff aren't on a scale then give them a percentage cut. The savings will be there because at the moment the consultants on the first point will be due an increment but by freezing increments we are making savings. Its not about making people suffer losses if someone is due an increment of say 2000 on 31st december and we cancel that thhen thats 2000 the government has saved are you saying they should save more so that the person can suffer? They might suffer if they had planned spending that money on something but the country's bank balance will suffer if something isn't done.
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Based on this a Clerical Offier on the 4th point of the scale goes back to 3rd eg: €27,844 back to €26,697.

A consulant on an annual salary of €197,296 due to go to €199,922 is frozen and the salary cut. But by how much?

Sorry I think this proposal is riddled with problems and just isn't a runner.
 
Re: Pub Sector get 12 days unpaid leave, where are the following years cuts to come f

so it means its the higher paid people on a scale that suffer more? Not as bad as the lower paid ones suffering more
 
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