No it's not. Dell would have moved anyway unless you wanted Dell to pay Irish workers the same wage as people earn in Poland. Do you really expect Ireland to compete with Eastern Europe and Asia when it comes to labour costs in manufacturing? The minimum wage should be scrapped but so should salary caps. Both are ridiculous. However, thinking it is a big problem economically is wrong. Even the IMF didn't care. They cared about flexibility in pay rates. Not the actual pay rates.
Easy to point the finger, and totally irrelevant to the recovery.
Equally obvious to see that you're not working and living in Dublin on the minimum wage.
ONQ.
Cutting the minimum wage is only one element of any potential restoration of our competitiveness.
All costs have to be looked at. Utilities, rent, rates, compliance fees, professional fees...everything.
But in my honest opinion, the minimum wage is far too high and we have to start somewhere so let's cut it.
Lots of the now defunct PD mantras here, but precious little specifics about what kinds of jobs these moves will create.
Lots of the now defunct PD mantras here, but precious little specifics about what kinds of jobs these moves will create.
Apparently labour costs account for 25% of the cost of a meal in a restaurant. Cutting the minimum wage should lead to reduced prices which would help tourism and domestic spending.
Wander into a shopping centre on a Sunday and take note of the number of retail units that are closed on Sunday. Why are they closed, especially given footfall on Sundays should be relatively high? Because the businesses cannot afford to pay their staff multiples of the minimum wage. Sunday premiums should be abolished...in retail there is no weekend.
Wander into the shopping centre during the week and see if the same shops are closed.
Those that have gone have gone because they cannot afford the leases.
Please could you also post references for your figures.
I don't disagree, but it improves the debate.
ONQ.
Equally true of the jobs that the pension levy and VAT reduction are supposed to fund and incentivise - getting back to one of the original thread topics from the article - why reduce VAT and charge a levy on pension funds when job creation is far from clear.Lots of the now defunct PD mantras here, but precious little specifics about what kinds of jobs these moves will create.
Apparently labour costs account for 25% of the cost of a meal in a restaurant. Cutting the minimum wage should lead to reduced prices which would help tourism and domestic spending.
Good to get some clarity that this not about creating new jobs, but is in fact about lowering wages in existing jobs.
As far as I can see, it is a false premise. What kinds of businesses and organisations who operate in the sub-minimum wage sector will be competing for international business?
So we're going to reduce wages of existing staff, and use that to pay a few extra staff. No increase in GNP there - just spreading the jam a little bit thinner, which will largely benefit the owners of the business.
As far as I can see, it is a false premise.
Or else it will mean more profits for business owners which are not reinvested, or else it will mean more profits for business owners which are moved or reinvested offshore. But you're also ignoring the other side of the coin - lowered wages means less spending, which means less retail jobs and less tax income.Lowering wages in existing jobs will mean profits for companies which means more expansion which means more jobs.
And again, for the Nth time, could you give some examples of export businesses that are paying minimum wage?Any business who exports. Existing companies will expand here if costs are cheaper and new ones will locate....it's very basic economics.
The relevance is to the author of the original article.Finally, I think it's rather pathetic that you slur mine and other arguements by comparing them to the PDs...our views have been around a lot longer than the PDs.
And maybe if things go really well, and they work really hard, they could just possible progress and increase their earnings right back to the current minimum wage level? It's the American dream come to Ireland - where you need 2 or 3 low paid jobs just to survive.More people will be working, gaining experience, they will use that experience to progress and increase their earnings.
There may indeed be some benefit here, though it is probably more to do with debt repayment than higher disposable income imho.Lower welfare costs require lower taxes resulting in higher disposable income in the economy.
Again, I'm still in the dark as to what kind of export businesses pay minimum wage.If a portion of the jobs have an export focus there will be a knock on of more ancillary jobs. More staff on the factory floor require more canteen staff, cleaners etc. Based on increased competitiveness, these will be new jobs.
I thought that I already had - I'm still in the dark about what kind of export businesses are paying minimum wage?"If businesses can offer their services at lower prices they will win more international business.....Do you think it is otherwise?"
Would you care to expand on this?
Or else it will mean more profits for business owners which are not reinvested, or else it will mean more profits for business owners which are moved or reinvested offshore. But you're also ignoring the other side of the coin - lowered wages means less spending, which means less retail jobs and less tax income.
And again, for the Nth time, could you give some examples of export businesses that are paying minimum wage?
I thought that I already had - I'm still in the dark about what kind of export businesses are paying minimum wage?
See this is the thing about economics and the future, nobody knows. And as inconvenient as that is, absolutely nothing can be done about it. I know that there are plenty of politicians and socialists in general that believe that they can influence what is invested where and what the outcome will be. But they are all very wrong.Would you care to give some kinds of examples of the kinds of business and industries that will create new jobs (not displace existing jobs) by offering wages below the current minimum wage level?
Please don't compare the comments that oppose your views to the PDs. Under the PDs government grew hugely, minimum wage went up massively, welfare entitlements went up, regulations increased across the board. All these things are the exact opposite of free market and classical liberal economics.I'll repeat the question - maybe instead of repeating the tired old mantras of the defunct PDs, you could give some kinds of examples of the kinds of business and industries that will create new jobs (not displace existing jobs) by offering wages below the current minimum wage level?
So we're going to reduce wages of existing staff, and use that to pay a few extra staff. No increase in GNP there - just spreading the jam a little bit thinner, which will largely benefit the owners of the business.
And another little economic reality check that may not suit you. When profits start rising investment starts to flow in not out. When investment flows in an economy improves. The reason investment and capital is not flowing into Ireland is because investors do not see profits. When they do see profits their greed radar will focus on Ireland again.Complainer said:Or else it will mean more profits for business owners which are not reinvested, or else it will mean more profits for business owners which are moved or reinvested offshore.
And this completely ignores what actually happens. Let's say that wages are reduced and more jobs created resulting in the same amount of total wages. First of all this would not lower spending but keep it level. But for arguments sake let's say that spending did go down resulting in a lower revenue to retail businesses. Because now there are less people on welfare the rate of taxation can be lowered so the net effect on the economy is zero.Complainer said:But you're also ignoring the other side of the coin - lowered wages means less spending, which means less retail jobs and less tax income.
And maybe if things go really well, and they work really hard, they could just possible progress and increase their earnings right back to the current minimum wage level? It's the American dream come to Ireland - where you need 2 or 3 low paid jobs just to survive.
Your point about debt repayments is valid but I am also thinking of the many people in their early twenties who don't have the large debts but have not had an opportunity to enter the workforce.There may indeed be some benefit here, though it is probably more to do with debt repayment than higher disposable income imho.
Again, I'm still in the dark as to what kind of export businesses pay minimum wage.
And maybe if things go really well, and they work really hard, they could just possible progress and increase their earnings right back to the current minimum wage level? It's the American dream come to Ireland - where you need 2 or 3 low paid jobs just to survive.