No danger of the 'Ra taking power.

[WolfeTone]

Please Google and find that source.

I appear to have been mistaken and my initial doubt has proven correct. Instead the statistic was that the vast, vast majority interned from Catholic/Nationalist side.
That said, there is plenty of evidence that a significant number of people were interned for no good reason. The excellent CAIN website is a great resource tool for those interested.

CAIN: Events: Internment: Summary of events

cain.ulster.ac.uk

"The policy proved however to be a disastrous mistake....The crucial intelligence on which the success of the operation depended was flawed and many of those arrested had to be subsequently released because they were not involved in any paramilitary activity."

The complaint was mainly that it was being applied very one sidedly, which is of course true, but even that can be justified; loyalists were not a threat to the state

I would have to respectfully disagree with that sentiment. Loyalists may not have been intent on threatening the NI state, but their actions certainly had the effect of destabilizing the very state that they were committed to upholding.

 

[Purple]

So ideally, if I had my way, justice would be served without fear or favour across the board.

So if you met a FF or FG activist and got into a discussion with them in a pub about their respective parties and spoke in a strongly negative way about their party and leadership would you be afraid that you or your property would be attacked afterwards?

Would you feel the same way about the same discussion with a Shinner activist?

 

[Purple]

I would have to respectfully disagree with that sentiment. Loyalists may not have been intent on threatening the NI state, but their actions certainly had the effect of destabilizing the very state that they were committed to upholding.

I have to agree with you there and they were the first to threaten civil war in the late 60's.
I wouldn't vote for the DUP either though.

 

[Purple]

On a side note I find it strange that the leadership of the Shinners won't use the name of this country but still drape our flag over the coffins of men from an organisation which had no compunction about killing members of our police force while robbing banks and murdering people.

 

[Drakon]

The IRA were a means to an end for Sinn Fein.

My concern is that if SF did get elected to government, they’d invade NI. They wouldn’t need the IRA anymore, they’d just use our defence forces. And they would be bound to comply.
It sounds completely outrageous though, doesn’t it?
So did 9/11.
So did our economic crash in 2008.
And so does the C19 lockdown and pandemic.

My father died aged 75 in 2000.
He never lived 9/11 or The Great Recession or the Great Lockdown.
It’s twenty years since he died and already these three events have happened.

 

[WolfeTone]

My concern is that if SF did get elected to government, they’d invade NI

I think this very unlikely. SF will only get into government if the people vote for them. The increase in their mandate coincides with the demise of the IRA and the demise of violent insurrection for political aims. SF wouldn't last 5 mins if they tried to pull a stroke like that and they would be back on the fringes in no time.
If they did get into government, with a majority, I have no doubt they would invoke the border poll referendum as agreed to in the GFA. If levels of support in NI remain the same for them, the British government would be under pressure to facilitate a border poll too. Depending on the result of that, would bring about the test of commitment to constitutional democratic politics. Not just for SF, but for Ulster Unionism and the British Government also.

 

[Drakon]

If you think it’s unlikely, you’re on the same wavelength as me. But 9/11 etc were also unlikely.

The invasion wouldn’t necessarily have to be the typical military invasion that we’re normally familiar with. No Blitzkrieg.

It could be like The Green March, when Morocco captured what was then Spanish Morocco (now Western Sahara?).
In that case hundreds of thousands of civilians protected by tens of thousands of Moroccan troops just walked over the border and claimed the region.
Something like that anyway.
Granted, war ensued thereafter with Polisario. But I think the Spanish just handed it over.

Not a very populous part of the world but the bauxite resources there are huge.

(I’m sure there are plenty of holes in my knowledge of The Green March, but, it’s the concept rather than the detail.
I could see SF organising it, but it would be as unlikely as guys hijacking planes and crashing them into buildings in the US).

 

[Drakon]

I may as well declare my own feelings on a United Ireland. I’ve never been that pushed about it. I think it’s a great romantic notion. But it would be so financially crippling for the RoI. And I’d fear loyalist reprisals, akin to the IRA’s bombing campaign on mainland Britain.

Brexit didn’t change my mind.

But COVID-19 has. A united island would be a lot easier to manage in terms of this pandemic. And any further crises in the future.

United by consent, or even by a Green March.
I’m in.

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

If they did get into government, with a majority, I have no doubt they would invoke the border poll referendum as agreed to in the GFA. If levels of support in NI remain the same for them, the British government would be under pressure to facilitate a border poll too. Depending on the result of that, would bring about the test of commitment to constitutional democratic politics. Not just for SF, but for Ulster Unionism and the British Government also.

I think that is a misread of the GFA. But you are right that a 50% +1 vote for a UI would be unlikely to be accepted by a shrug of the shoulders by our Unionist brethren.

 

[Purple]

I think that is a misread of the GFA. But you are right that a 50% +1 vote for a UI would be unlikely to be accepted by a shrug of the shoulders by our Unionist bethren.

The Unionists have long ago established their views on constitutional democracy; as long as they have the majority they are all for it but when the threat of a popular vote going against them is on the horizon they will bomb and shoot as well as anyone.

 

[Purple]

I may as well declare my own feelings on a United Ireland. I’ve never been that pushed about it. I think it’s a great romantic notion. But it would be so financially crippling for the RoI. And I’d fear loyalist reprisals, akin to the IRA’s bombing campaign on mainland Britain.

Brexit didn’t change my mind.

But COVID-19 has. A united island would be a lot easier to manage in terms of this pandemic. And any further crises in the future.

United by consent, or even by a Green March.
I’m in.

I agree with you right up to Covid19 changing my mind. As well as the economic destruction of taking on what is a failed economic entity, their rubbish education system and the potential for terrorism what really turns me off the idea is the levels of racism, homophobia and general bigotry amongst the Unionist and Nationalist tribes. I like the fact that we live in a liberal inclusive country, generally freed from the cancer of religion. I fear that influence in my country again.

 

[Peanuts20]

Let's be clear about something, a United Ireland will result in many people dying and anyone who thinks otherwise is a naive deluded fool. The unionists are not going to go "grand so". There will be violence on a scale not seen on this island since the early 70's and probably much worse. And it will be our soldiers and Gardai being transferred to Belfast who will be expected to keep the peace.

Secondly, we can't afford it. NI is bank rolled by their Government in London, who will pay for it- we will have to

As for SF, how many people here have heard one of their bombs go off? I have, twice, my windows shook when Canary Wharf went off and I was once one street over when a litter bin bomb went off down the West End one night on my way to a show. The day they repudiate the IRA, apolgise for trying to kill me and for blowing my employers head office to bits in Bishopsgate, then I might take them seriously. Until then, they are just skangers in suits

 

[WolfeTone]

United Ireland will result in many people dying and anyone who thinks otherwise is a naive deluded fool. The unionists are not going to go "grand so". There will be violence on a scale not seen on this island since the early 70's and probably much worse.

Why? Are you suggesting that Unionists are not Democrats? Are you suggesting they are in fact terrorists?

As it stands, a UI can only come about through peaceful, democratic activity. In other words, a majority of people in NI.
Now assuming such a vote didn't produce a contentious 50%+1 return, but rather a substantive, say, 55% in favour of UI, what makes you think people will die?

Secondly, we can't afford it. NI is bank rolled by their Government in London, who will pay for it- we will have to

This is all theoretical.
The prospect for increased investment in a peaceful reunited Ireland, which would benefit the whole country is huge in my opinion.

 

[cremeegg]

The Shinners define themselves as being enemies of part of the population.

They most certainly do not. Their founding purpose is to 'unite Catholic, Protestant and Dissenter in the common name of Irishman'.

That they have failed to do so is obvious, that much of their past activity hindered this objective is clear. But you are simply wrong to say that they define themselves as enemies of part of the population.

Their more recent rhetoric on equality and respect provides an outlet in NI for political views on gay rights and abortion that unites people from surprising backgrounds.

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

A fascinating piece in today's IT on the life of Bobby Storey. Undoubtedly a larger than life character in the Bonnie & Clyde mode, surely to be made the subject of a film. Northern Bank raid, Maze prison escape, Castlereagh security breach and many more, including well after the GFA. And of course a real hard man to boot, though I presume not a child killer. For Northern republicans to wallow in their heroes is one thing and maybe even understandable but what we have to be very, very concerned about is the contamination of our own body politic in the Republic.

Mary Lou excuses her attendance at the funeral on the grounds that Bobby Storey was a "friend". That seems even worse than the real reason which is that Falls Road HQ would demand her presence.
Stephen Collins in the same IT highlights the threat to our democracy. Apparently Falls Road HQ including Bobby Storey have been a fixture in Leinster House over the last few years. How many of the 25%, many young, would be aware of this? How many of these believe the propaganda that Bobby Storey got 18 years for being a Catholic with a rifle for hunting rabbits without a permit? Stephen Collins sums up the danger in his final sentence:

...the country may well find itself being ruled by the IRA army council after the next election.

 

[cremeegg]

He was a key member of a terrorist organisation which murdered children.

We know, you remind us every chance you get. And Dermot Martin is a key member of an organisation 10% of whose clergy raped children. We still let them run our schools.

 

[Purple]

They most certainly do not. Their founding purpose is to 'unite Catholic, Protestant and Dissenter in the common name of Irishman'.

That they have failed to do so is obvious, that much of their past activity hindered this objective is clear. But you are simply wrong to say that they define themselves as enemies of part of the population.

Their more recent rhetoric on equality and respect provides an outlet in NI for political views on gay rights and abortion that unites people from surprising backgrounds.

That can say anything they like but their history and their current actions in relation to racist and homophobic elected members speaks much louder.

 

[Purple]

And Dermot Martin is a key member of an organisation 10% of whose clergy raped children.

Is he running for elected office? Does he have aspirations to run the country?
Does he go to the funerals of paedophile priests and describe them as good men and close friends?

As far as I'm concerned the State should seize the assets of the RC church, including every school and hospital they own. In my view religion is a cancer. You'll not see me defending it just as you'll not see me defending the child killers, and their apologists, in Sinn Fein.

 

[cremeegg]

You'll not see me defending it just as you'll not see me defending the child killers, and their apologists, in Sinn Fein.

I understand that.

What I do see is you seeking to create division between SF supporters and the rest of society.

Most Catholics dont support the church because it rapes children, but despite that. Most SF supporters dont support SF because it killed people.

 

[Peanuts20]

Why? Are you suggesting that Unionists are not Democrats? Are you suggesting they are in fact terrorists?

As it stands, a UI can only come about through peaceful, democratic activity. In other words, a majority of people in NI.
Now assuming such a vote didn't produce a contentious 50%+1 return, but rather a substantive, say, 55% in favour of UI, what makes you think people will die?

Are you seriously suggesting that the UVF, Red Hand Commando's and whatever other organisations exist or would exist in the future are going to organise a petition or stand outside the Dail going "down with that sort of thing, Careful now!" regardless of what % of the population in NI vote for a uinited Ireland.? They will in their......... They'll pick up guns and shoot people and to think otherwise is naive and reckless beyond belief. 55% is not substantive, it would need to be 80-90% + as a minimum