Lizzie Windsor to visit the auld sod

Sunny said:
After hearing Martin ferris on the radio talk about this, I would not only welcome the queen, I would give her a bed for the night. Words do not describe what I think of Martin ferris and his like.
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+1 Sunny. I couldn't believe the guff he was coming out with.
 
Sunny said:
After hearing Martin ferris on the radio talk about this, I would not only welcome the queen, I would give her a bed for the night. Words do not describe what I think of Martin ferris and his like.
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Presume it was knuckle dragging Celtic jersey & Dutch Gold stuff. Appealling to his electorate no doubt......
 
Lizzie must be happy. Her team are currently leading England 4-1.

Meawhile, in a drawing room, not a million miles from Buckingham Palace :-

Lizzie:- "Ja, dass ist sehr gut, die griechische phil, ist es nicht? Wir haben einige Weißbier jetzt bitte. Feck dass alte Tee, es nur für die englischen Untertanen's."

Ponsonby-Smythe, footman extraordinaire :- "Very good Ma'am. Might I be so bold as to offer congratulation on behalf of the palace staff. We are truly pleased."
 
Yorky said:
Which other Queen could they mean? Ireland has only relatively recently not been under the 'Queen or King' and this Republic of Ireland thing is an ideological farce; it is economically and militarily dependent on the 'Queen'.
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I want to break free
I want to break free
I want to break free from your lies
Youre so self satisfied I don't need you
Ive got to break free
God knows God knows I want to break free​

Its strange but it's true
I can't get over the way you love me like you do
But I have to be sure
When I walk out that door
Oh how I want to be free baby
Oh how I want to be free
Oh how I want to break free​






 
Yorky said:
Which other Queen could they mean? Ireland has only relatively recently not been under the 'Queen or King' and this Republic of Ireland thing is an ideological farce; it is economically and militarily dependent on the 'Queen'.
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Irish men and women bled and died to gain independence from the UK. I am thankful that they did as I want to live in a republic where I am equal under the law rather than be a subject/citizen of a theocratic monarchy where I am second-class under the law.

“The Queen” could refer to any of the constitutional monarchs or their regents throughout Europe. I am not a fan of the sycophantic lick-spittle’s who submissively crave the second class status of a subject.

The UK is our biggest trading partner but that is common for lots of small countries. It doesn’t mean that they should lose their independence. We are militarily dependent on NATO and the USA is a paymaster for NATO. The UK wouldn’t have had any army worth talking about for the last 40 years if it was not for American technological and economic support.

Thankfully a country is more than its economy and colonisation through economic dependence or debt issues went out of fashion around 1900.
 
I said earlier in this thread that I don't buy into the 800 years of oppression BS. I just don't like the constitutional arrangements (or lack of them) in the UK. I don’t like a system where the subjects have no inherent rights, just those given to them by their monarch (or their monarch in parliament to be exact). I know it doesn’t really matter in practice but it is still anachronistic. Legally Liz could murder a few pensioners then sexually abuse a few kids and she couldn’t stand trial. Crazy.
 
Personally I DO buy into the 800 years of oppression. Not even a generation has passed since the british crown was murdering irishmen on the island of
Ireland.

I think she should be told to bog-off! Her presence in Ireland is unwarranted and unwanted.
 

Latrade's excellent post on the first page of this thread outlined why the 800 years thing is rubbish.
I’d agree to a great extent if it was from the era of Henry IIIX or the Ascendency or the Act of Union but to say that the English/British have been oppressing Ireland for 800 years is just factually incorrect.
 
Liamos said:
And what about the Irishmen murdering englishmen on the island of england?
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Not sure what the "island of England" is...

Anyway, what about them? I don't condone it whatsoever but I assume you understand at least the concept of armed resistance/guerrilla warfare against occupying forces and associated punitive actions?

Or are you suggesting that this would be happening anyway, that Irish people simply enjoy travelling around the world killing people?
 

Tim Parry and Jonathon Bell to name but two were not part of an occupying force and I would not call their death an associated punitive action because of the British presence in Northern Ireland. It was cold blooded murder and was as disgusting as the shootings on Bloody Sunday.

Neither side can take the moral highground when it comes to the past so using incidents from the past to oppose a visit from the Queen is ridiculous. We played God Save the Queen in Croke Park and the world didn't end. We can be polite to a little old lady for a few hours, show her a few schools, give her a bite to eat, feed her Corgi's and stick her on the plane home. It's not a betrayal of the Republican Movement.
 
I'm really on the fence on this one, but if I thought she'd give us her royal wave (as if we are her subjects), that would bother me!
 
Sunny said:
Tim Parry and Jonathon Bell to name but two were not part of an occupying force
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No, of course not.

...and I would not call their death an associated punitive action because of the British presence in Northern Ireland.
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Well I would, in the sense that it would not have happened otherwise.

It was cold blooded murder and was as disgusting as the shootings on Bloody Sunday.
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I agree.


I agree also - although I would have zero interest in the whole thing and it would somewhat embarrass me to see an eager eyed grinning crowd gathered, but hey.

All I am taking issue with is Liamos post which is basically bizarre and naive as far as I can see.

Whereever anyone stands on republicanism and it's various shades and whether it is republicanism with a small or capital R and whether or not you deplore murder in every form, it is quite obvious to anyone with the tiniest understanding of the history and politics of these islands that paramilitary action has only been carried out in England as a result of British military actions on this island. It would not have happened otherwise.

Again, I'm not condoning any paramilitary or militray violence in any way shape or form.
 
The West Brits and Castle Catholics who wave the Union flag will bother me. Maybe it shouldn’t and it’s a sign of my immaturity but it will.
 
Purple said:
The West Brits and Castle Catholics who wave the Union flag will bother me. Maybe it shouldn’t and it’s a sign of my immaturity but it will.
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Do you think anyone will? I would be amazed if any great amount of people turned out to see her. School children will be forced to smile at a couple of photo opportunities but I can't imagine the streets of Dublin will be lined with onlookers.
 

They were not murdered by the Irish State or even anyone from it. Werent the murderers from Northern Ireland? The UK claims NI, so officially speaking, they were murdered by their fellow British subjects as part of a domestic dispute.
 
csirl said:
they were murdered by their fellow British subjects as part of a domestic dispute.
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I agree. Their 30 year civil war spilled over into this country quite a bit (the Dublin and Monahan bombings being a case in point) but in the end it was their own domestic dispute. I hope the next time our nearest neighbour has a civil war we will help them sort it out again.
 
Yorky said:
This is a thinly-veiled apology for murder.
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No it isn't. I'm not apologising or justifying in any way. It is an explanation of why "Irishmen murdered Englishmen on the island of England", that's all. An explanation that people like Liamos seem to need. Maybe you too. My post was pretty clear I thought, but if you have your own agenda, work away.

What is this thing about history anyway?
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I don't have "a thing" about history.

...if you object to the Queen visiting Ireland
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I don't, particularly.
 
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