Learning from other countries re Dodgy Builders

T McGibney said:
Still not my term. That's why I used quotation marks.

And you didn't answer my question.
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It reads like like you just grouped them all as money people.

I think I did. It was a variation of show me the money. See where they took shortcuts or where they spent the money. Follow the money.
 
T McGibney said:
That doesn't advance your "failed miserably" claim one bit.
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I could go into details about air tightness, BER ratings, various scandal's with fire regulations, pyrite, and such. But you'd have to have your head firmly "entrenched" in the sand to need all that pointing out.
 
AlbacoreA said:
I could go into details about air tightness, BER ratings, various scandal's with fire regulations, pyrite, and such. But you'd have to have your head firmly "entrenched" in the sand to need all that pointing out.
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I'd like you to point out how you deem it appropriate to hold accountants and "money people" responsible for such failures?

If you're unwilling to answer, let me know and we can leave it at that.
 
T McGibney said:
I'd like you to point out how you deem it appropriate to hold accountants and "money people" responsible for such failures?

If you're unwilling to answer, let me know and we can leave it at that.
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I've already answered it.

They have ultimate sign off.
 
T McGibney said:
They don't actually.

CEOs have ultimate signoff.
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It's like taking to a minister and dept where no one in the chain of management and oversight is responsible and no one takes ownership.

It's that mindset that has it where it is.
 
AlbacoreA said:
It's like taking to a minister and dept where no one in the chain of management and oversight is responsible and no one takes ownership.

It's that mindset that has it where it is.
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I've no idea what your point is. The fact remains - CEOs, not finance dept heads, have ultimate responsibility for a company's actions
 
T McGibney said:
How do you propose that accountants and "money people" can be held responsible for construction defects?
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Yes, a rather ill defined group. My bad.
Housing developments are built by builders who are employed by construction companies and developers. There are Quantity Surveyors, Architects, Engineers, purchasing officers, accountants and other people in the loop, employed by the developer and construction company. It is possible that they were all, to a lesser or greater extent, culpable. An investigation (audit) would find that out reasonably quickly.

Even a desktop audit at the time (like the kind of thing a QS should have done) would have shown the deficiencies in fire safety in apartment blocks and that clearly didn't happen so the narrative that it's all down to dodgy builder doesn't stack up. There were plenty of people who never got their hands dirty and never climbed scaffolding on a wet winter morning who knew exactly what was happening and chose, at the very least, to take the money and say nothing.
 
Purple said:
Yes, a rather ill defined group. My bad.
Housing developments are built by builders who are employed by construction companies and developers. There are Quantity Surveyors, Architects, Engineers, purchasing officers, accountants and other people in the loop, employed by the developer and construction company. It is possible that they were all, to a lesser or greater extent, culpable. An investigation (audit) would find that out reasonably quickly.

Even a desktop audit at the time (like the kind of thing a QS should have done) would have shown the deficiencies in fire safety in apartment blocks and that clearly didn't happen so the narrative that it's all down to dodgy builder doesn't stack up. There were plenty of people who never got their hands dirty and never climbed scaffolding on a wet winter morning who knew exactly what was happening and chose, at the very least, to take the money and say nothing.
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My question concerned accountants as you mentioned them specifically.
 
T McGibney said:
My question concerned accountants as you mentioned them specifically.
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developers and construction companies employ accountants. Only an investigation would reveal if they were aware of what was going on but given the scale of what was happening they would have to be especially incompetent to not know.

I've no wish to get into the long grass on this issue so I'll leave it as that.
 
Purple said:
I've no wish to get into the long grass on this issue so I'll leave it as that.
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No answer to my question so. Ok.

I'll finish here too by adding that in no other walk of life is it ever suggested that broad masses of employees should be pursued and presumably punished decades later for the corporate failings of their former employers.
 
T McGibney said:
No answer to my question so. Ok.

I'll finish here too by adding that in no other walk of life is it ever suggested that broad masses of employees should be pursued and presumably punished decades later for the corporate failings of their former employers.
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Not getting the answer you want is not "no answer".

You made a sweeping statement about building and developing, and now accounting, as if none of that has any responsibility for anything it's involved in.

Its clear there's been a soft touch to enforcing regulation's over a very long time. The failures are now systemic.

This is not about fixing the blame, but fixing the problem. To fix the problem you have admit there is a problem in the first place.
 
AlbacoreA said:
Not getting the answer you want is not "no answer".
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No, the question wasn't answered at all. And that's okay too.
AlbacoreA said:
You made a sweeping statement about building and developing, and now accounting, as if none of that has any responsibility for anything it's involved in.
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No, for the nth time, if your company makes a defective product or delivers a defective service, that's the responsibility of the company CEO, and by extension, the relevant technical line manager(s). It is not the responsibility of the company accountant, finance dept or its external accountants.

This is very very basic stuff.
AlbacoreA said:
Its clear there's been a soft touch to enforcing regulation's over a very long time. The failures are now systemic.
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Again nothing to do with accountants.
 
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