Irish passports used in Hamas killing

[Shawady]

Just wondering what others think of this story.
If Israel's involvement is proven, it is hardly the actions of a country we are supposed to have friendly relations with.
What would the reaction be if agents from a muslim country used false irish or british passports in a plot to kill an israeli national?

[broken link removed]

 

[RonanC]

I wouldnt exactly say we have "friendly" relations with Israel.

When it is proven that Israel was involved in the illegal passport making and the killing, I can see ours and the UK's relations with Israel becoming even more harder to keep civil.

 

[Sunny]

The passport thing doesn't really bother me that much. Stolen and fake passports get used the whole time by the good and bad guys. Amazing though to see how the media and polticians main gripe is that European passports were used and not that a country that is supposedly one of the good guys is implicated in sending out hit squads to assasinate their enimies. If Iran had done likewise, we would be invading them. If the US got caught at it, there would be huge anti-American sentitment everywhere like there was after Abu Ghraib. But because it's Israel and you can't criticise Israel without being anti-semitic, we focus on the use of fake passports without looking at the bigger question.

 

[VOR]

But because it's Israel and you can't criticise Israel without being anti-semitic, we focus on the use of fake passports without looking at the bigger question.

+1. You cannot say a word against Israel.
[broken link removed]

I would urge anybody that did not see the documentary on Channel 4 to watch Defamation.

 

[csirl]

This identity stuff happens all the time with special agents from most countries who have them. Its also systemic in a lot of despotic countries - you often do you hear about terrorists supported by these countries travelling on fake passports and fake identities. I dont think its right - I am a firm believer in everyone maintaining their real identity at all times, but to have a go at Israel over this and not have a go at the 100s of middle eastern terrorists who routinely do this smacks of double standards.

 

[bond-007]

I do wonder how did they get the passport numbers. Did they skim them in Israel? Mossad mole working in the DFA?

 

[DB74]

My understanding from the British passports scenario is that they are British citizens who live in Israel full-time

 

[VOR]

to have a go at Israel over this and not have a go at the 100s of middle eastern terrorists who routinely do this smacks of double standards.

There is a huge difference between a terrorist and a country. Although, when I look at the state in question I am starting to wonder if there really is any difference.

 

[csirl]

I do wonder how did they get the passport numbers. Did they skim them in Israel? Mossad mole working in the DFA?

A lot of hotels in mainland Europe seek photocopies of passports of people checking in - in some places its a legal requirement.

I would think that the easiest way to get passport numbers would be to have someone take a job in a hotel and then quit after a couple of days. I'm sure that the photocopies in most hotels probably arent keep in the most secure area - probably just in a filing cabinet in the office or behind the reservations desk. Lot easier than tapping into e.g. DFA.

 

[Ancutza]

Most interesting for me is the lack of any kind of comment from the Obama administration.

The existence of Israel and how it behaves itself in the middle-east is always going to ensure that few Europeans can sleep well at night and fewer Americans.

Zionism not Judaism is the root of the problem....

 

[censuspro]

Most interesting for me is the lack of any kind of comment from the Obama administration.

The existence of Israel and how it behaves itself in the middle-east is always going to ensure that few Europeans can sleep well at night and fewer Americans.

Zionism not Judaism is the root of the problem....

I think the existence of fundamental Muslims who blow up trains is a more of a reason for Europeans not to sleep at night.

 

[Latrade]

Most interesting for me is the lack of any kind of comment from the Obama administration.

The existence of Israel and how it behaves itself in the middle-east is always going to ensure that few Europeans can sleep well at night and fewer Americans.

Zionism not Judaism is the root of the problem....

Let's not pretend that this kind of subterfuge is the sole preserve of the State of Israel. Any state that has a secret/special force engages in such covert operations.

The other aspect is while suspicion can and should lie with Mossad, we still do not have full information. Yes the Dubai Police say they are 99.9% sure it was Mossad, but then without any political interference in that statement, the Dubai police force wouldn't be the most trustworthy in terms of "extensive" or "fair" investigations.

The US did make a statement given the known circumstances and did, in the best diplomatic language possible given current knowledge, speak against the situation.

However, no state can fully admonish Israel just yet until there is clearer evidence as to who was behind it. Then that state would have to be certain it hadn't done a bit of covert action itself in the past.

Just as it's ridiculous that you can't speak out against Israel's policies without being labelled anti-semetic, it's ridiculous that not speaking against something before actual proof is served is seens as being hand-in-hand with some Zionist conspiracy.

 

[Ancutza]

I think the existence of fundamental Muslims who blow up trains is a more of a reason for Europeans not to sleep at night.

Agreed. But then you have to ask yourself what has radicalised these Muslims?

 

[csirl]

Most interesting for me is the lack of any kind of comment from the Obama administration.

Why would the Americans make a statement? They arent alleged to be involved and no fake American passports were used and no Americans were victims. Its nothing to do with them.

 

[Ancutza]

Why would the Americans make a statement? They arent alleged to be involved and no fake American passports were used and no Americans were victims. Its nothing to do with them.

It might merit a mention from them given that their closest middle-east ally is being blamed for an extrajudicial killing in a 3rd party country don't you think? Unfortunately Obamas White House is doing nothing to reign in the Israelis contrary to the worlds hopes at the time of his election.

 

[csirl]

Albert Reynolds was involved in a scheme to sell Irish passports to anyone who invested €1m in Ireland and some middle eastern people invested in the Reynolds family business to avail of this scheme. Coincidently an address belonging to a member of the Reynolds family appears on the Dubai "fake" passports. Given that there are approx. 2 million addresses in Ireland, you'd have greater odds of winning the Lotto !!!!!

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0223/dubai.html

[broken link removed]

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/a...-burned-by-a-cold-and-cruel-flame-125805.html

Do the Israelis have something against the Reynolds' for giving passports to Arab businessmen? Trying to embarrass him?

 

[Jim Davis]

Agreed. But then you have to ask yourself what has radicalised these Muslims?

And what has radicalised Israel? Since the inception of the state of Israel other Arab nations have openly stated and tried to destroy the state of Israel.

The fundamental point is that if the Arabs put down their weapons there would be no more violence, if Israel put down their weapons there would be no more Israel.

 

[VOR]

The fundamental point is that if the Arabs put down their weapons there would be no more violence, if Israel put down their weapons there would be no more Israel.

This is a simplistic explanation that overlooks the issue of military occupation of Palestinian land.

 

[csirl]

This is a simplistic explanation that overlooks the issue of military occupation of Palestinian land.

The concept of "Palestine" as portrayed by the arabs in recent decades is artificial. There is no such thing as an ethnic "Palestinian".

The people in the West Bank are Jordanians who have been abandoned by Jordan. This area used to be part of Transjordan.

The people in Gaza are Egyptians who have been abandoned by Egypt (wasnt this part of Egypt proper up to the 1960s?)

The elephant in the room is not the question of why Israel restrict these people in crossing into Israel, its why have Egypt and Jordan sealed in 100,000s of their own citizens into unstainable poverty ridden enclaves? Why wont Egypt & Jordan integrate these areas back into their countries, provide the people with the basic requirements they need and most importantly police them. With regard to Egypt in particular, the creation of Gaza is a convenient way of them opting out of policing and administering part of their country. Israel would have no objection to Egypt ruling this area - the problem is that Egypt is unwilling to do so as they do not want to stop attacks on Israel or they are fearful that they will be subject to Israeli retaliation if they are unable to police the area.

And dont give me the Israelis should abandon their country and move out speach. Whatever about the rights and wrong of what has happened in previous eras, the facts are that the vast majority of Israelis have been born there and lived all their lives there. Clearing them out or killing them all (as advocated by a lot of Arabs) is unrealistic.

 

[johnd]

Whatever about the rights and wrong of what has happened in previous eras, the facts are that the vast majority of Israelis have been born there and lived all their lives there.

So why do they all have American accents and behave as Americans?