Irish passports used in Hamas killing

Capt. Beaky said:
Not wanting to get embroiled further ......... lets say, if I had to pick 15 gaa football players under 16 years and, on the blind, had to choose from Kilkenny or Kerry ........ afraid I'd have to go for the latter. Kinda empirical, if you get my drift! If, on the other hand, I had to pick 15 gaa hurlers under 16, and the same conditions applied ....... then I'd choose the former. I could be totally wrong with the results but, the idea suggests that I had reason to follow my instinct. Was afraid to mention nationalities lest I appear racist. In advance I apologise to Kilkenny football aficionados (sorry about the 11 letter word Jim - Googling will explain) and Ditto for Kerry hurlers. In fact to anyone that gets miffed by my presumptions. And I apologise to myself for ever getting involved in this one :)
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No offense, but that's utter nonsense and has nothing to do with what you said earlier. You never said anything about employing people "on the blind".
 
OK then. If colleagues, who had earlier experience in this field, had a word in my ear or if I had just seen a few players from both sides perform a few times I could make an educated decision. The first example would be 'educated', because I was trusting my own judgement in listening and noting his advice. This is as close as I can come to explaining what I mean.
 
Having been out of this discussion for a few days due to work commitments I've just read back thro' the whole thread. It seems that, squabbling aside, 2 camps have emerged. Those whom, like myself, deem the use of forged Irish passports by a foreign power in the murder of an individual as wholely unacceptable and those who seek to be apologists for it.

I hope (although I doubt) that the Irish government will be as tenacious as the British government in seeking to get to the bottom of it and apprehend the culprits from whatever power they stem.

State your case gentlemen! Is it acceptable or not? A 'yes' or 'no' answer will suffice. After that we can debate what should be done about it given that it happened.

My own view...It's not acceptable and the utmost should be done to bring the culpable parties to justice and jail them.
 
NO. Although did not get involved in discussion watched it develop into Arab v Israel lines.
 
Ancutza said:
Having been out of this discussion for a few days due to work commitments I've just read back thro' the whole thread. It seems that, squabbling aside, 2 camps have emerged. Those whom, like myself, deem the use of forged Irish passports by a foreign power in the murder of an individual as wholely unacceptable and those who seek to be apologists for it.
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I think the two camps were more along the lines of it's not accpetable, but the fact that it was Israel involved made it even more unacceptable or such covert activities are not the sole preserve of Israel.

I still think relying on the "confidence" of the Dubai Police as to who was involved is pushing it a bit. Having said that, I'm inclined to also agree it does have the touch of official covert operations.

Anyway, my view is: No it isn't acceptable...if you get caught doing it.

If only so it gives John Le Carre some more material and an opportunity to get back on form.
 
I’m not happy with Irish passports being used by agents of any foreign power for covert operations. That said, in the real world these things happen.
 
Purple said:
I’m not happy with Irish passports being used by agents of any foreign power for covert operations. That said, in the real world these things happen.
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What exactly do you mean by the statement in bold?
 
DB74 said:
What exactly do you mean by the statement in bold?
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Just that; in the real world secret service operatives from different countries use passports from other countries when travelling under a false identity. The USA does it, The UK does it, France does it, Israel does it etc. I’m sure all other major powers do it as well. It would be great if it didn’t happen but it does. Nobody is singling out us, we are just a small innocuous country with no secret service and bugger all clout internationally so by using an Irish passport there’s the double benefit that it is a good low profile flag to travel under and if they get caught there’s very little we can do about it.

I’m not happy about it but there’s not a lot we can do about it.
 
Purple said:
Just that; in the real world secret service operatives from different countries use passports from other countries when travelling under a false identity. The USA does it, The UK does it, France does it, Israel does it etc. I’m sure all other major powers do it as well. It would be great if it didn’t happen but it does. Nobody is singling out us, we are just a small innocuous country with no secret service and bugger all clout internationally so by using an Irish passport there’s the double benefit that it is a good low profile flag to travel under and if they get caught there’s very little we can do about it.

I’m not happy about it but there’s not a lot we can do about it.
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so.. everything is good and well. I take it it wouldnt be a problem if this was done by an arab country too then?
 
Woke up in the middle of the night last night and watched Milleband the U.K. foreign secretary on HARDTALK.The man is slippery and talks like a textbook and anyway he called in the Israeli diplomat who denied all knowledge and of course he can`t criticise Israel untill all the facts are known.
He was also quizzed on the U.K. links to torture be some U.K. agents being in Guantanamo interviewing British detainees and associations also with less savoury regimes.His answers are that the U.K. have to work with all regimes to uphold security at home and abroad and to uphold human rights in the face of the no 1 threat which is of course terrorism. Anyway you get the gist.
My point is that there will be absolutely no sanction taken against Israel . The P.R. people have all the textbook answers ready for the politicians.
We don`t condone the killing.
We don`t condone the fraudelent use of british or irish passports.
We are awating a response from Israel and won`t rush to judgement
etc etc
In a way this has been a masterstroke by israel secret services and no action will be taken against them apart from the P.R. responses of politicians.
 
nmesisca said:
so.. everything is good and well. I take it it wouldnt be a problem if this was done by an arab country too then?
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It would be the same in moral terms if any democracy did it. That doesn't make it right by the way.
 
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