Yep, we use the same custodian bank as Goodbody. $2 Trillion in custody assets and tested to destruction when Bloxhams blew up in an accounting fraud.
The benefits and convenience of a nominee account outweigh the risks
Irish Government Bonds for the retail punter
- Thread starter Duke of Marmalade
- Start date
The benefits and convenience of a nominee account outweigh the risks
Duke of Marmalade
Registered User
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Not as risky as equities. As risky as deposits but paying at least 1% p.a. more. I don't think inflation linked deposit/bonds are available here but if they were you would have to pay at least that 5% premium for the "insurance"
You need direct or indirect access to Euroclear to invest in most Irish Government Bonds. Technically as far as i know, the only registered owners of the bond on the registry held by the Central Bank will be Euroclear. They will then manage the settlement, payments etc for any investors who have bought the bonds.
I know you used to be able to buy government bonds directly but don't think you can anymore.
Nominee accounts are perfectly safe and way more cost effective.
I know you used to be able to buy government bonds directly but don't think you can anymore.
Nominee accounts are perfectly safe and way more cost effective.
Update - bought the 0.2% May 27 issue on DeGiro. €3 transaction fee - great service!
One tip - the executable bid / offer spread on Degiro looks a faction wider than I see quoted by the primary dealers. If you're not in a rush try leaving a limit order slightly inside the offer price.. worked for me.
One tip - the executable bid / offer spread on Degiro looks a faction wider than I see quoted by the primary dealers. If you're not in a rush try leaving a limit order slightly inside the offer price.. worked for me.
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Maybe this is a stupid question as it seems so simple but just wanted someone to confirm.
Lets say the maturity date of May 2027 happens. Will DeGiro or which ever broker you purchased with get repaid by the Government and then they add to your current cash balance. I am assuming that what happens (Outside of default) and funds should be there in few days after maturity date.
Thanks.
Lets say the maturity date of May 2027 happens. Will DeGiro or which ever broker you purchased with get repaid by the Government and then they add to your current cash balance. I am assuming that what happens (Outside of default) and funds should be there in few days after maturity date.
Thanks.
I have invested in Ireland 1% 15/5/26 and Ireland 0.2% 15/5/27.
To me it seems these short dated low coupon bonds are a good once-off opportunity to get a CGT-free gain with low risk. These are intended to be held to maturity so interest rate rises before maturity are unlikely to be relevant.
YTM on the latter is around 2.6% pa with minimal income tax liability and no CGT.
Investment in a non-Irish Treasury bond at par would need a yield north of 5% to produce the same after tax result (assuming all the return is liable to income taxes).
There are other opportunities for capital instead of income gains from the era of ultra low interest rates, albeit that require taking more risk, e.g. Goldman Sachs 0.25% 26/1/28, YTM recently around 4% pa.
I wonder how to find out the status of EIB bonds "issued in Ireland" which may be CGT-free too (as referred to above)? There is an EIB 0.875% 14/1/28 with YTM recently quoted as 2.8% pa.
Commission and custody etc. costs have a material impact on these low yielding assets, Irish brokers charge eye-watering fees. I must investigate DeGiro. Are there any other online low-cost platforms offering a wide range of sovereign and corporate bonds?
To me it seems these short dated low coupon bonds are a good once-off opportunity to get a CGT-free gain with low risk. These are intended to be held to maturity so interest rate rises before maturity are unlikely to be relevant.
YTM on the latter is around 2.6% pa with minimal income tax liability and no CGT.
Investment in a non-Irish Treasury bond at par would need a yield north of 5% to produce the same after tax result (assuming all the return is liable to income taxes).
There are other opportunities for capital instead of income gains from the era of ultra low interest rates, albeit that require taking more risk, e.g. Goldman Sachs 0.25% 26/1/28, YTM recently around 4% pa.
I wonder how to find out the status of EIB bonds "issued in Ireland" which may be CGT-free too (as referred to above)? There is an EIB 0.875% 14/1/28 with YTM recently quoted as 2.8% pa.
Commission and custody etc. costs have a material impact on these low yielding assets, Irish brokers charge eye-watering fees. I must investigate DeGiro. Are there any other online low-cost platforms offering a wide range of sovereign and corporate bonds?
basilbrush
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Although probably unlikely, it might still be possible that the current discussion around harmonising tax rates on different types of investments could affect this.
Have you looked at Interactive Brokers? I believe they have a large selection, although most Irish government bonds do not seem to be available.
basilbrush
Registered User
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It was Interactive Investor that abrdn acquired. Interactive Brokers is different (and much larger - current market cap. is $35b). You can search for bonds available on Interactive Brokers here.
Yes I replied too hastily, Interactive Investor is aimed mainly at UK investors and is not relevant to this discussion.
I have not dealt with Interactive Brokers, it appears to list 10 Ireland bonds under "non-US sovereign bonds"; the details are not available to a non-account holder. But only some of the stated coupons and maturities appear to correspond to Irish government bonds as listed on Euronext or the NTMA's list of outstanding government bonds. None of them are in the short dated sub-1% coupon category that attract for tax reasons. Interactive Brokers also lists some NTMA bonds but I suppose these might not have the CGT advantage.
I have not dealt with Interactive Brokers, it appears to list 10 Ireland bonds under "non-US sovereign bonds"; the details are not available to a non-account holder. But only some of the stated coupons and maturities appear to correspond to Irish government bonds as listed on Euronext or the NTMA's list of outstanding government bonds. None of them are in the short dated sub-1% coupon category that attract for tax reasons. Interactive Brokers also lists some NTMA bonds but I suppose these might not have the CGT advantage.
Hi Protocol,
can I ask how you managed to buy on DEGIRO?
I tried yesterday and couldn’t get anywhere.
Best,
Opus2018
Search for IRLAND.
No CGT on any capital gains on Irish Govt Bonds.
That's the main reason why I bought some trading below par.
Hi Protocol,
Sorry I should have been clearer - I could see the bond alright but I had difficulty placing an order - I got sorted in the end but just keep missing out on the price!
Ah well, just keep trying!
Cheers,
Opus2018.
This list may help:
live.euronext.com
Irish Government Bonds - Euronext exchange Live quotes
- Live Euronext stock exchange quotes, realtime prices, charts and regulated news
Thanks to you guys on this thread I have just opened an account with Degiro. Was looking to invest €100k in Irish Gov Bonds and could only find Goodbodys willing to do it. High fees with them is a real put-off so I'm now going to dip my toe by buying a small amount through Degiro. Looking at the the 2031 0% Treasury bond currently but waiting until I think interest rates have peaked before I dive-in. Thanks to all for the info above.