Innocent person shot dead in Limerick

The interesting thing about life sentances for murder is that only way they can get out is if the Minister of Justice, Equality and Law Reform allows it after taking advice from the parole board.

There is no automatic reduction in sentance for good behaviour for someone who is serving a life sentance. The only requirement is that the prsioner is allowed a parole hearing after a certain amount of years.

Maybe our Minsister needs to stand up and declare that from now on, anyone convicted of a gangland killing is getting life and will serve life (or at least a significant amount of it). Won't solve the problem but at least it is a statement of intent.
 
starlite68 said:
that was tried in northern ireland in the early seventies.....big big mistake.
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There is a big difference. A large minority of the population of Northern Ireland in the 1970s (and later) had various degrees of sympathy with and support for the terrorists. This meant that internment increased public support for the terrorists, and motivated hordes of sympathetic youths to join them.

In contrast, there is very little public support for the gangsters and no real prospect of large numbers of disaffected youths joining their ranks as a protest against society.
 
ubiquitous said:
There is a big difference. A large minority of the population of Northern Ireland in the 1970s (and later) had various degrees of sympathy with and support for the terrorists. This meant that internment increased public support for the terrorists, and motivated hordes of sympathetic youths to join them.

In contrast, there is very little public support for the gangsters and no real prospect of large numbers of disaffected youths joining their ranks as a protest against society.
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Well if you are supporting it, could you show some previous cases where internment was used successfully?
 
diarmuidc said:
Well if you are supporting it, could you show some previous cases where internment was used successfully?
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Who said I supported anything? I just countered what I saw was a mistaken comparison between 1970s NI & 2008 gangland. Although I'm far too young to know definitively, I understand that the Irish government used internment quite successfully to counter the IRA campaigns of the late 50s, early 60s, as did De Valera's government against the IRA during WWII (but don't bite my head off if I'm mistaken in this).
 
maybe when bush leaves office, we can have him over as a guest speaker to tell us how successfull" guantama bay"has worked for him....
 
the problem with internment in the North and Guantanmo is that poor intelligence was used in a general "round up" of anyone remotely suspected to be a threat. In the North at least, dunno about Guantanamo, large numbers of innocents, predominantly from one community if I'm not mistaken, were rounded up so obviously their community reacted. I'd echo that statement about internment in the 50's having worked - because it was a marginalised group, no public support.

In the Limerick scenario if 30 of the worst could be lifted I suspect that would be enough for the moment, so we're not talking about hundreds. If the guards are doing as much surveillance and know as much as they let on they do (but cant act on due to the law) then few if any innocents would be picked up.

Far from a public backlash there would be rejoicing (privately) amongst those "imprisoned" in their own estates - like the Southhill residents who said "please help us" in a letter last year because they were afraid of attending a public meeting.

Now interment wont ultimately solve the problem but perhaps it would give enough time for law and order to get a foothold, and the next time they get a chance to bring one of them to court to lock them up permanently then that they should do. It is wholly unfair on large numbers of decent people to live lives in fear because we pussyfoot around the sensitivities and civil liberties of unrepentent scumbags - is it only criminals that have rights in this country?
 
Betsy Og said:
In the Limerick scenario if 30 of the worst could be lifted I suspect that would be enough for the moment, so we're not talking about hundreds. If the guards are doing as much surveillance and know as much as they let on they do (but cant act on due to the law) then few if any innocents would be picked up.
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Sounds great in theory, but if it works so well why not bring it in nationwide (and full time) ?
 
Betsy Og said:
In the Limerick scenario if 30 of the worst could be lifted I suspect that would be enough for the moment, so we're not talking about hundreds.
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if the government ever did give this the go ahead..i think we all know it would not stop at 30 people,nor would it be confined to just limerick,
it would quickly become a nationwide policy for all sorts of alleged offences...however its very unlikely the government would ever agree to something like this,as they know it would almost certainly be successfully challenged in the european court of human rights!
 
starlite68 said:
if the government ever did give this the go ahead..i think we all know it would not stop at 30 people,nor would it be confined to just limerick,
it would quickly become a nationwide policy for all sorts of alleged offences...however its very unlikely the government would ever agree to something like this,as they know it would almost certainly be successfully challenged in the european court of human rights!
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So are you saying that something like this would not be a good thing? Surely gang warfare is a worldwide issue and maybe it could be tackled on a European front aswell.
 
MrMan said:
So are you saying that something like this would not be a good thing? Surely gang warfare is a worldwide issue and maybe it could be tackled on a European front aswell.
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if you are saying it would be a good thing...then,as a privous poster said...show us somewhere internment has been successfull!
 
starlite68 said:
if you are saying it would be a good thing...then,as a privous poster said...show us somewhere internment has been successfull!
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I would be willing to try anything to move the balance of power away from the thugs and to try and make the generation after the next one a safer one. The kids growing up from 6 years old are already lost causes in some areas with pre teen boys and girls already engaging in crime. We need something to happen so rather than sit back and pick holes in the downsides I would say that now is the time for a real reaction to gang crimes.
 
if the government ever got away with bringing in internment...i think we all know it would just be the"thin end of the wedge"
as i said,i think its highly unlikely europe would allow this to happen.
 
Are our gardai/department of justice/politicians/judiciary that lacking in integrity that you fear they would run amok if given such powers?

Give them some credit. I'd rather put my life in their hands than run the gauntlet of the gangs.
 
starlite68 said:
i think most people know the answer to that already!
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I'm not in love with them either, but the alternative that people are living through is worse.

No more than the gangs directly affect me (touch wood, bet you latest victim didnt think he was at risk either), I think my chances of internment are NIL. But I do feel sorry for the people intimidated in their own homes - I bet you they'd take their chances with the guards.

Internment isn't an ideal world solution - I know its' dangers - but faced with unpalatable situations you might have to take unpalatable actions for the greater good.
 
we would all like to see these criminals brought to justice and punished for their crimes....but to suggest internment as a solution is very knee-jerk....its like useing a sledge hammer to crack a nut. plus its never been proven to actually work anywhere!
better to try to come up with something that might actually work.
 
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