Does it? I don't see how.Yes, 'pending re-integration' implies that every Irish government is duty bound to pursue and prepare for that objective.
I always felt that the Shinners regarded this country as foreign. They only recognised our sovereignty recently. In fact they regarded our police and army as legitimate targets until recently.So my guess is that, somewhere in the region of 80% of all political persuasions, north and south, do not consider NI - or conversely, The Republic, as foreign.
There is a right for those born on the island of Ireland, which includes its islands and seas, to be part of the "Irish Nation"
Yes, 'pending re-integration' implies that every Irish government is duty bound to pursue and prepare for that objective.
But admittedly, we can go around the houses on this one until the cows come home....its just a matter of interpretation. Do you think NI is a 'foreign country'? I don't.
Does it? I don't see how.
I always felt that the Shinners regarded this country as foreign. They only recognised our sovereignty recently. In fact they regarded our police and army as legitimate targets until recently.
There is no territorial claim over Northern Ireland in our constitution. There is an aspiration, but no claim.Because it suggests it is to happen? And because it was in the constitution, an Irish government could not, legally, take a position contrary to it.
It might be of interest to know why, since partition and until after the GFA, that there was never an official Head of State visit between Ireland and Britain, was because no Irish government could permit its Head of State to visit the Head of State while the government of Britain was occupying illegally the territory of the country. Ditto, the British Government, it could not sanction a visit of its Head of State to Ireland while Ireland made, in its view, an illegal claim to administer law in what it claimed to be its territory.
What the GFA has done, is remove the dispute over the right of administering law in NI, but it has not removed the territorial claim, laid out now is aspirational manner - as is, its 'for the people to decide', rather than government being obligated.
Its is political obfuscation at its best.
In the end, it is all a matter of interpretation. Do you consider NI as foreign? I do not.
The people living there may see themselves as Irish or British and that's fair enough, but they live in the UK which is foreignDo you consider NI as foreign? I do not.
A nation is conceptual,
refers to a grouping of people, it has no territory
That's some leap
What I might wish for has little bearing on what constitutes a country under international law. So I do recognise it as a separate state, as do our own government, and most of the world. Is there a country that does not recognise it as such?
There is no territorial claim over Northern Ireland in our constitution. There is an aspiration, but no claim.
I aspire to sleep with Anne Hathaway, I make no claim that it will happen and if I meet her I won't attempt to coerce her into sleeping with me.
And you are perfectly entitled to that opinion. My opinion is that only those who are entitled to vote in this country should have a say in what is done by our elected members of parliament.So if a political party, like the Greens, constitute themselves for all-ireland membership, I cannot see any difficulty in anyone who, under Bunreacht na hEireann, would qualify as being part of the Irish Nation (whether they themselves want to be or not) excercising an opinon on the internal political affairs of the party that they are members of.
While I could claim that is would, alas, be factually incorrect to do so and may well cause indue and unjust stress and upset to the other party.Yes, but you can claim it did happen and will happen again (pending your re-integration with Anne Hathaway) ....which I suspect may invoke the ire of Anne Hathaway herself (as our territorial claim did with Unionists).
I appreciate your support; we can all dream.Aspiring to be part of unified communion with Anne Hathaway, through exclusively peaceful and consentual means, is your perogative and I will stand in unison with you, wherever you go, to uphold the right to hold that aspiration.
The people living there may see themselves as Irish or British and that's fair enough, but they live in the UK which is foreign
No idea and it's not the point I am making. If you move to Liverpool you are still Irish but you are living in a foreign country.If I join FF or FG and move to Liverpool to live, do I relinquish my right to have a say in the affairs of the political party as a paid member?
No idea and it's not the point I am making. If you move to Liverpool you are still Irish but you are living in a foreign country.
I'm suggesting that only people who are entitled to vote in an election should then get to decide what their elected representatives do. I don't want people from China or Russia or the USA or the UK having a say in our political process.Firefly, you seem to suggest that a persons nationality is the issue, not necessarily where they live? Purple was suggesting that where a person lived, and not necessarily their nationality, was the primary issue.
I'm suggesting that only people who are entitled to vote in an election should then get to decide what their elected representatives do. I don't want people from China or Russia or the USA or the UK having a say in our political process.
I'm not saying there is any issue, perhaps read my posts again.Firefly, you seem to suggest that a persons nationality is the issue, not necessarily where they live?
I'm not saying there is any issue, perhaps read my posts again.
Clearly this nation does, when it refers to its islands and seas?
I dont see how? I seem to recall Unionists getting quite vexed over it for that exact purpose that every Irish government was bound under Bunreacht na hEireann to effectively pursue re-integration of NI with the South.
I didn't ask what you 'wish' for, I asked you what you thought. Do you think NI is a foreign country?
As the Proclamation stated, it cannot be extinguished except by the destruction of the Irish people.
Where does the nation claim the islands and seas as sovereign territory?
I know for sure it is considered as a separate state by our own government and I'm not aware of any foreign government who think otherwise.
Yes, because it's simply a notion, it isn't tangible.
You are conflating law and aspiration.Even if they live and work and pay taxes here?
I accept my last comment about Nigerians in Italy was a little too flippant. I would imagine most political parties have some restrictions in place for party membership. Being resident in Ireland, or an Irish citizen I would imagine being the basic criteria for party membership.
Excluding people who are not yet entitled to vote would be undemocratic. A foreign national living here without a right to vote is still affected by the laws administered here, such a person should be allowed a political channel to voice their concerns. Party membership allows that.
As for NI, most political parties have policies set on relations, political, economic that may have direct impact on the people living there. I think its only reasonable then that those residing in NI have a say in the decision making processes of those political parties here.
As the constitution recognises, they are not foreign, but part of the Irish Nation. They may be governed by a foreign state, but they are not foreigners in their own country.
Sure, when that aspiration becomes a reality (and the bombs start going off in Dublin).The easy answer to your issue is, to allow those residing in NI to have Dáil representation.
Sure, when that aspiration becomes a reality (and the bombs start going off in Dublin).
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