It's actually unbelievable.
Housing and fake news
- Thread starter cremeegg
- Start date
Never. I am almost totally unfamiliar with Dublin.
Of the 41 houses mentioned 1 is in Fortunestown, 1 in Fettercarin, both asking less than €190k. So 39, 3 bedroomed properties under €250k not in Fortunestown or Fettercairn.
If there is an antisocial behaviour issue in these or other areas, that is a policing issue, not a housing issue.
Perhaps these areas are unliveable in I don't know, I have however been in many areas elsewhere in the country with bad reputations, and they all contain lots of perfectly normal people living perfectly normal lives. They ignore those neighbours who are difficult to live with as best they can. But such neighbours can be found anywhere. I know of two cases of people being jailed for harassing neighbours, both in middle class areas.
I suspect the "dump in Finglas" mentality is another manifestation of people being influenced by a small number of cases which receive disproportionate publicity. Fake news in fact.
That's a lot of "suspicions", "ifs" and "unfamiliarity" for someone so sure their stats shows there is no issue with affordability in Dublin...
There's a reason they are on the market at that price.
My suspicion is that those 41 properties are all dumps that no reasonable person would want to pay their own money for.
If any of them arent dumps they will sell for a lot more than their asking price.
I say that with as much justification as you seem to think they represent the solution to affordable homes in Dublin.
If someone can tell me they bought a similar property, in one of the areas listed, and they are not from the area, and things have worked out well - well that's something I give credence to. I don't put any stock in any of your suspicions.
I say that as a Dubliner who knows there are places in Dublin you don't buy and move into, unless you want a world of hassle and stress. And no, I don't mean everywhere outside D4.
Maybe Dublin properties are affordable, but you'll need a lot more to back it up with that that.
So, I'm labeling the declaration that those 41 properties means there's no affordability issues with Dublin housing as "fake news".
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Sorry Cremeegg but you really can't draw any conclusions about affordability from a tiny sample size of advertised properties for sale without knowing anything about the disposable incomes or savings of the would be purchasers of those properties. Frankly, it's a ridiculous assertion.
A €25k deposit would be an unimaginable fortune for a very significant proportion of our capital's population.
Here's a (somewhat) more rigorous comparative analysis that suggests that residential property in Dublin is "seriously unaffordable" relative to median incomes -
http://www.demographia.com/dhi.pdf
These are 3 bedroomed properties, suitable for families. Some posters suggest that they are in such bad areas that they are uninhabitable. I am not qualified to contradict that, but I am not convinced.
Of course it would. I am not suggesting that everyone can afford a family home. What I am suggesting is that there are properties available suitable for families at prices which are within reach of a family with a joint income of say €40k
It is also Avery quiet time of year for estate agents I suggest when there has been time to get photos etc after Christmas the number may be substantially higher.
@cremeegg
The report that I posted suggested that median house prices in Dublin were selling at a multiple of 4.7 times median incomes in 2016. That is unaffordable (whatever about "seriously" unaffordable) by any reasonable measure.
Whether estate agents are busy or quiet at this time of year is completely irrelevant.
I happen to agree with you that media reporting on housing issues often borders on hysterical.
However, to argue that housing in Dublin is affordable on the basis of the price of 40 advertised properties in a city of Dublin's size, and nothing more, is just silly.
The report that I posted suggested that median house prices in Dublin were selling at a multiple of 4.7 times median incomes in 2016. That is unaffordable (whatever about "seriously" unaffordable) by any reasonable measure.
Whether estate agents are busy or quiet at this time of year is completely irrelevant.
I happen to agree with you that media reporting on housing issues often borders on hysterical.
However, to argue that housing in Dublin is affordable on the basis of the price of 40 advertised properties in a city of Dublin's size, and nothing more, is just silly.
Middle income people dont buy in Donnybrook. The issue is whether they can buy afford to buy houses in areas other than the most expensive areas in the country or the worst areas of the city.
The next time you are in Dublin take a walk around west Finglas or Fortunestown or Fettercairn or Jobstown at 10.30 on a Friday or Saturday night.
I agree that nobody would want to live in Finglas if they could help it.
Are the following bad areas?
Walkinstown 295K
http://www.daft.ie/dublin/houses-fo...kinstown-crescent-walkinstown-dublin-1623428/
Drimnagh 230K
http://www.daft.ie/dublin/houses-for-sale/drimnagh/244-kilworth-road-drimnagh-dublin-1623425/
Clonsilla 285K
http://www.daft.ie/dublin/houses-for-sale/clonsilla/1-barnwell-green-clonsilla-dublin-1614327/
Swords 275K
http://www.daft.ie/dublin/duplexes-for-sale/swords/30-boroimhe-alder-swords-dublin-1613798/
280K
http://www.daft.ie/dublin/houses-for-sale/swords/22-castle-grove-swords-dublin-1616169/
Whitehall 295K
http://www.daft.ie/dublin/houses-for-sale/whitehall/249-larkhill-road-whitehall-dublin-1619697/
Tallaght 250K
http://www.daft.ie/dublin/houses-fo...on-avenue-ballycragh-tallaght-dublin-1601714/
265K
http://www.daft.ie/dublin/houses-for-sale/whitehall/249-larkhill-road-whitehall-dublin-1619697/
Raheny 275K
http://www.daft.ie/dublin/houses-for-sale/raheny/143-edenmore-avenue-raheny-dublin-1579548/
Tyrrelstown 260K
http://www.daft.ie/dublin/houses-fo...unt-garrett-grove-tyrrelstown-dublin-1343672/
Castleknock 285K
http://www.daft.ie/dublin/houses-for-sale/castleknock/16-fernleigh-drive-castleknock-dublin-1536292/
Lucan 290K
http://www.daft.ie/dublin/houses-for-sale/castleknock/16-fernleigh-drive-castleknock-dublin-1536292/
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Those posters should name the bad areas. I do get there are bad areas. But there is a load of nonsense on this thread.
And I do know a bit about Dublin. The list of houses I put up - two of the areas I know very well. But I will agree they are not Ballsbridge. (Ballsbridge being ridiculous priced, overcrowded, you can't get parking and there isn't space to swing a cat unless you're the type that can buy on a salary of a superstar). But neither are they Finglas. There is nothing at all wrong with the places I put up. The only other dodgy one might be Tallaght. But I'll wait for the Dubs to tell me what is wrong with each of the places I put up. I suspect there is a whole heap of snobbery going on here.
Castleknock, Swords, Tallaght, Walkinstown, Tyrrelstown, etc. I think the other posters should tell us for each of the areas I put up what is wrong with them.
Name the areas that are good and bad in Dublin then. Name where you consider a no go area.
The Whitehall one is already 45k over the €250,000 figure quoted at the outset... and it is a 2 bed house.
If it was a 3 bed house in that area you can add at least another €50,000 to that price.
I would expect that particular property to sell for > €300,000.
Edenmore historically had a rough reputation, it was a 'corporation area'.
I think it has started to settle down in recent years but I don't know the specific roads well enough.
Again, that property is 25k higher than the €250,000 figure quoted earlier and realistically we could expect it to sell for more if people have had a good look at it and the road seems nice and property doesn't need much work.
I think we need to come up with a figure for what is internationally considered affordable based on median salary in comparison to property price, and look at some new builds also. A small sample size of existing properties in different areas, of unknown condition inside is not reliable to assess affordability.
If it was a 3 bed house in that area you can add at least another €50,000 to that price.
I would expect that particular property to sell for > €300,000.
Edenmore historically had a rough reputation, it was a 'corporation area'.
I think it has started to settle down in recent years but I don't know the specific roads well enough.
Again, that property is 25k higher than the €250,000 figure quoted earlier and realistically we could expect it to sell for more if people have had a good look at it and the road seems nice and property doesn't need much work.
I think we need to come up with a figure for what is internationally considered affordable based on median salary in comparison to property price, and look at some new builds also. A small sample size of existing properties in different areas, of unknown condition inside is not reliable to assess affordability.
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You're being very vague now. Can you copy paste my post and say per area if they are ok or not and why not. And while you're at it please explain to me how the houses I put up are unaffordable when I checked the rents of three beds and found the following:
Rents
Lucan from 1650 to 2250 a month
Tallaght 2000 a month
Raheny 2300 a month
Dumps
The word dump has been bandied about on this thread. I know people who lived in corporation houses, I know parts of cities which were once corporation as I purchased one once and my husband was so embarresed he told me not to tell anyone. Until I renovated it and sold it. That area is now considered very desirable - and it's not the only one. I also know parts of the center of Dublin as I had relations that lived there, I know it's considered by some to be a no go area but it's all a perception. Sure there are certain pockets or streets, but it's amazing to me how people only look at what they think they know.
Yep, never mind those boarded up windows. It a "policing issue".
Totally agree straight away with that being a no go area. You don't just need the boarded up windows but white van also tells us a lot. Conversly I have a tenant in a nice three bed house in a city, my previous family home, the tenant has a white van in the front of the house on the grass and I believe he's got someone living in it. But I can't prove it. But it's a nice estate all the same. (Well settled, teachers, esb workers etc but also many rented houses as well as every second house having a flat let out, from converted garages). And 15 minutes walk into town. We were told not to purchase it as the houses had issues with subsidence, which they did. But that was all done and dusted by the time we purchases but the 'reputation' lived on. My sister in law bought a tiny house in a better area and she's no garden to speak off, the house is dark, poky etc, and 5 minutes away from my house.
Bronte,
you are right - some of the areas you listed are fine, but the houses themselves are still overpriced. I wouldn't touch Tyrellstown with a barge pole (far too rough, lots of drugs, stabbings etc). Whitehall is fine, but like the other poster said, houses go for a lot above the asking price there.
It comes down to this - regardless of area, houses in Dublin are all overpriced. It's getting out of hand again.
you are right - some of the areas you listed are fine, but the houses themselves are still overpriced. I wouldn't touch Tyrellstown with a barge pole (far too rough, lots of drugs, stabbings etc). Whitehall is fine, but like the other poster said, houses go for a lot above the asking price there.
It comes down to this - regardless of area, houses in Dublin are all overpriced. It's getting out of hand again.
It's not. I can tell you that from experience!
I'm not the one pushing the fake news theory because of a small sample size of properties.
Almost all the properties you listed are higher than €250,000 ... why are the goalposts shifting?
You have offered nothing in support to justify €250,000 to €300,000 as being affordable, even if we agreed on the properties being ok - which we don't.
The onus is on the side arguing these properties mean the affordability crisis is fake news to prove their point.
The information provided in support of this is vague, it uses an unreliable sample size of properties of unknown condition.
Then you respond that I am being vague?