Housing and fake news

cremeegg

Registered User
Messages
4,134
There is a discussion on another thread about good and bad journalism, this set me thinking about the falsehoods that are accepted as facts about Ireland's economic situation.

Here is a fact that does not sit with the current narrative.

There are 41, 3 bedroom properties for sale in Dublin at present for less than €250,000. With a 10% deposit that represents less than €1,100 a month over 25 years.

Housing in Dublin is not unaffordable.
 
I hardly think that = fake news.

It would be fake news to say that there are X number of houses, when there aren't...

I would wonder how many of those houses need another 50k - 100k for renovations, for example.
41 properties for a city with a population of hundreds of thousands doesn't suggest an abundance of affordable housing.

When I hear people claim there are X number of vacant properties in the country, solely on the basis that they didn't return a census form, that to me is fake news.
 
Last edited:
I disagree. For what you get, it is unaffordable. Many people (if not most) would not want to live in those properties or the areas they're in. For what they are, they are actually seriously overpriced. A dump of a house in Finglas or Clondalkin for 250k? Nowhere near a bargain.
 
There are 41, 3 bedroom properties for sale in Dublin at present for less than €250,000. With a 10% deposit that represents less than €1,100 a month over 25 years.

Housing in Dublin is not unaffordable.

The statement on its own doesn't mean anything. Affordability is relative to income. €1,100 a month could be two thirds of before tax income for someone on minimum wage.

Also not all houses are equal. €250k represents different affordability if what you need is a 3-bed with off-road parking on Ailesbury Road and what you get is a 3-drawer cardboard filing cabinet on the side of the M50 with lousy neighbours.
 
Last edited:
Housing in Dublin is not unaffordable.

Nowhere near a bargain.

Sanparom

Cremeegg's point is that people who want to get on the housing ladder, can do so if they can save €25k

He has not said that they are good value.

I have often debated this point on the radio when the Central Bank announces their updated rules. The others always say "The average house in Dublin is €x so a buyer would need 10% x to buy it"

I have to point out that the normal first time buyer does not buy the average house in Dublin. They buy a starter home and it might not be in Dublin. And then they trade up after a few years. But I have often heard the point made in the papers and on the radio and it goes completely unchallenged.

Brendan
 
Brendan,

I was once a first-time buyer. I would have loved to have been able to trade up, but I have been stuck, in the same place with a growing family and not a hope of going anywhere for the foreseeable (especially if house prices keep increasing). What I bought in 2005 is now not fit for purpose (raising children), but I am trapped. All the talk out there is always about first-time buyers and them needing to get on the property ladder, but what about those of us, whose ladder seems to stop forever on about step 2? There is rarely talk of us. Granted, I have a property and would make a scant profit if I were to sell (which we're going to have to do at some stage, but trying to find a way to do it is the problem), but then I need to find a 20% deposit from somewhere for a house which is suitable for a growing family. I think that it's foolish for any first-time buyer to buy a (below par in an undesirable area) property thinking that they will get to trade up in a few years. That, unfortunately, doesn't happen for everyone.
 
I think that it's foolish for any first-time buyer to buy a (below par in an undesirable area) property thinking that they will get to trade up in a few years. That, unfortunately, doesn't happen for everyone.
I think that's a fair point.
 
Hi San

Agree that it's a risk. But there is also the risk of staying out of the market and not being able to ever afford in these "below par in undesirable areas).

The point is that people in Dublin can get on the housing ladder for €25k. The media would lead you to believe that this was not possible.

Brendan
 
an example of fake news is that ireland is not a friendly place for tenants

a housing shortage is an entirely different matter and a pressing one for those looking for a place to live in dublin or cork etc
 
I have to point out that the normal first time buyer does not buy the average house in Dublin. They buy a starter home and it might not be in Dublin. And then they trade up after a few years. But I have often heard the point made in the papers and on the radio and it goes completely unchallenged.

I have to say that this type of thinking is symptomatic of the type of thinking that led to the housing bubble in the first place. I do question the whole concept of a "starter" home in the first place. What is it supposed to mean? That it is not real home? Just somewhere to park while you save for a real home?

The concept of "affordable home" is also something that bugs me. It implies that all other house purchases are actually unaffordable, that they are over-priced....er,wait a second?o_O
 
Hi San

Agree that it's a risk. But there is also the risk of staying out of the market and not being able to ever afford in these "below par in undesirable areas).

The point is that people in Dublin can get on the housing ladder for €25k. The media would lead you to believe that this was not possible.

Brendan

Just because someone can technically get on the property ladder in Dublin by buying a property in an area that they have no interest in buying in does not prove that housing in Dublin is affordable. Are we really in a position of telling a young person working in Sandyford that they shouldn't complain as they can buy in Tallaght? So some houses on certain roads in certain areas are going for less than 250k. What exactly does that tell you apart from the fact that there is probably a very good reason why people don't want to live there. And that's not for snobby reasons. Nobody should be forced to buy in area that has serious social problems or is nowhere near where they work with rubbish transport just because the house is 'cheap'.

Also the idea of starter homes and getting on the property ladder in fear of never being able to get on it is what got us in this mess.
 
Are we really in a position of telling a young person working in Sandyford that they shouldn't complain as they can buy in Tallaght?

Yes. And nothing wrong with that. According to google maps it is 12.6 km. 18 minutes by car, or 42 minutes by bike.

To think that this is not a perfectly acceptable housing option for a young person working in Sandyford is ridiculous, and shows how completely out of touch with reality the debate around housing has become.
 
Are we really in a position of telling a young person working in Sandyford that they shouldn't complain as they can buy in Tallaght?

I am astonished by this Sunny.

We can't have everyone living in Dublin 4. I would guess that someone working in Sandyford but commuting from Portlaoise would love to live in Tallaght.

Agree with cremeegg that some people are completely out of touch.

Brendan
 
Ok so Sandyford and Tallaght are not the best examples but the point still stands about people buying in areas where don't want to buy for whatever reason. The point that 41 houses in the Dublin area are available for less than 250k as proof that housing in Dublin is affordable is completely ridiculous. All those houses are in very small pockets of Dublin. And sorry Brendan, but so is telling the media that housing is not unaffordable for first time buyers or many people stuck in unsuitable properties because they can just buy anywhere and anything and then trade up after a few years. So all is good then. No housing problems here folks. Making statements like that is as bad the media going on and on about how expensive houses are. Adds nothing to the discussion.
 
Just because someone can technically get on the property ladder in Dublin by buying a property in an area that they have no interest in buying in does not prove that housing in Dublin is affordable. Are we really in a position of telling a young person working in Sandyford that they shouldn't complain as they can buy in Tallaght? So some houses on certain roads in certain areas are going for less than 250k. What exactly does that tell you apart from the fact that there is probably a very good reason why people don't want to live there. And that's not for snobby reasons. Nobody should be forced to buy in area that has serious social problems or is nowhere near where they work with rubbish transport just because the house is 'cheap'.

Also the idea of starter homes and getting on the property ladder in fear of never being able to get on it is what got us in this mess.

sure tallaght is no journey from sandyford ?
 
I was once a first-time buyer. I would have loved to have been able to trade up, but I have been stuck, in the same place with a growing family and not a hope of going anywhere for the foreseeable (especially if house prices keep increasing). What I bought in 2005 is now not fit for purpose (raising children), but I am trapped.
How is it not fit for purpose ? Just because the little dorlings don't have a room of their own does not make it unfit for purpose :rolleyes:
 
It's a 2 bed duplex with no garden and a tiny kitchen and sitting-room. It is not where we would like to raise our family, but at the moment, like many other people, we don't have much choice. I'm not asking for much - just a bit more space and a garden so my boys can go outside and play football. There is no need for the sarcasm, elcato!
 
Yes. And nothing wrong with that. According to google maps it is 12.6 km. 18 minutes by car, or 42 minutes by bike.

To think that this is not a perfectly acceptable housing option for a young person working in Sandyford is ridiculous, and shows how completely out of touch with reality the debate around housing has become.
Have you ever lived, or even spent an evening, in Fettercairn or Fortunestown? Try being an outsider and moving into the area. Try parking your car outside. It is not unreasonable for someone who is working and earning a reasonable income to aspire to a small house in an area which is not "socially deprived".

We can't have everyone living in Dublin 4.
That's right, because Fortunestown is just one step down the ladder from Donnybrook.

Agree with cremeegg that some people are completely out of touch.
I agree, some people are.

If the discussion is about Housing and Fake News then any discussion about a solution which does not concentrate solely on supply side issues is bogus and any reporting of such proposals which do not eviscerate them is fake news.

Help to buy schemes, relaxations of Central Bank rules, tax breaks for buyers, Local Authorities buying any of the existing stock; any of these things being reported as helping the housing crisis in any was is fake news as all they do is a) throw more money are the same stock of homes and so push up prices or b) move the same people up and down the same queue.
 
Headline: Housing Minister declares housing crisis over: "There are 41 3-bed affordable homes in Dublin."

When pressed the Minister continued: "No, I haven't actually looked at the homes to see where they are, why they are on the market at that price or whether they are in need of renovations, but I am confident this means my job is done."

That would be fake news.
 
Back
Top