Going to the races while on sick leave.

Sue Ellen said:
and hopefully not pick up Covid in light of lowered immune system (after illness) and large crowd. A further absence because of Covid would certainly not go down well with the employer.
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I didn't think about covid, good point.

Also I haven't been racing for years but back in the day, you'd need your full strength for one of the busy days at Galway. I was thinking more of the Monday evening meetings which are easy going.
 
twofor1 said:
I am a good employee who is certified not fit for work until next Monday, if there is no basis for disciplinary action, then I still intend going.
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Nobody can tell if your employer will decide to take action or not. You are on sick leave and continuing to receive compensation, if they are serious POed they might take the view it was fraud and warranted instant dismissal and make a criminal complaint or they might say nice one, enjoying a break on our dime or something in between.
 
Or a cold wind could suddenly blow in your direction, where your career prospects suddenly don’t seem as bright as they once were.
 
twofor1 said:
Just to clarify, the only question I have asked is; Could there be any basis for disciplinary proceedings if my employer knew I was at the races while on certified and paid sick leave ? The answer seems to be a definite no, thanks to all who confirmed this.

There can be many illnesses where one can be out and about after antibiotics but not be well enough to work, a lot also depends on the job.

On Covid, believe me, I would have a far higher chance of catching it at work, than I would have outdoors on a sunny evening at Leopardstown races.
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Definite No, really?

If it happens and you're sacked what defense do you propose to use?

It's your life and its your decision but I think the majority has said it's foolish and theirs a lot of extremely knowledgeable people on this site, from multiple walks of life and business.
 
I write people sick notes every day. I'm also a manager.

You are entitled to socialise and be a human being when you're off sick. It's not a binary situation where you are either 100% fit or on your deathbed.

Unfortunately some people do not understand/accept this and your boss may be one of them.
 
Brendan Burgess said:
Clamball

Did you read his first post. He is taking anti-biotics. My opinions might be outdated, but do they give antibiotics for mental illness and tell people it will improve in 10 days?.
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Brendan Burgess said:
But it sounds to me that he is well enough to return to work and should do so. Then he can go to the race meeting with a clear conscience.

Brendan
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Yes, I did read the OP post. I am not saying he has a mental illness, I am trying to say that as a manager or employer you cannot determine what illness a person has or their fitness for work if you encounter them outside work. As a manager or employer you have to bear in mind that many illness are not visible and that a GP has given a professional opinion on their fitness for work.

This is why many companies require a “fit to return to work certificate” if an employee wishes to return before their certified sick leave is up. It is not up to Brendan Burgess as a manager to determine fitness for work on the basis of your non professional opinion that “you sound fine to me, get back to work”.
 
Paul O Mahoney said:
Sanctimonious claptrap.

The poster said he/her/ or whatever the poster identifies as is on antibiotics, so its probably a bacterial infection. Its certainly not mental, an accident or an etc...which isn't an illness.

Being seen in public is fine, being seen on a racecourse watching and betting with the money the Employer is paying out for not working is ..............I suppose and illness too, but incurable as its greed, entitlement and shows another symptom of what's wrong with this country.

Get up the yard
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People are entitled to keep their medical information confidential because otherwise people make judgements - all I am trying to say is don’t judge.
 
Please enlighten us by revealing the ailment that necessitates an antibiotic, prevents an employee from working, but enables that employee to attend an evening at the races and an Imelda May concert.

What’s next, heading off to Spain whilst on sick leave?

And woe betide anyone who concludes that the person is a waster who should be managed out.

Interestingly, there appears to be case law in the UK where a guy was fired for being dishonest when he was found in the pub whilst on sick leave. He was reinstated, but mainly because the entire process wasn’t really documented properly. The commentary around the case cautions people around concluding that they can’t be fired for hitting the sauce whilst on sick leave.
 
Clamball said:
People are entitled to keep their medical information confidential because otherwise people make judgements - all I am trying to say is don’t judge.
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Whilst you yourself have judged those with opposing views to your own as likely members of a particular gender in your earlier post? (Whilst at the same time espousing equality and recommending that those same people be educated on discrimination!) Gwanouttathat!!
 
arbitron said:
I write people sick notes every day. I'm also a manager.

You are entitled to socialise and be a human being when you're off sick. It's not a binary situation where you are either 100% fit or on your deathbed.

Unfortunately some people do not understand/accept this and your boss may be one of them.
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In this specific case, based on the info on the thread which the OP just added...
"Any job that requires a lot of concentration, accuracy or attention to detail, any high pressure job, any job that is safety critical or any job that is physical or involves manual labour."

Yes.

But in a less demanding role, if you had someone out for 2 weeks with say, a chest infection, would you write them a sick note for Day 10 of the illness even though they are capable of say going to a concert?
 
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twofor1 said:
There can be many illnesses where one can be out and about after antibiotics but not be well enough to work, a lot also depends on the job.
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To expand on this a bit, there are jobs in most fields where a person could be well enough to be out and about after antibiotics but not well enough to work, some examples would be;

Any job that requires a lot of concentration, accuracy or attention to detail, any high pressure job, any job that is safety critical or any job that is physical or involves manual labour. You would need to be 100% firing on all cylinders for these jobs, you do not need to be 100% to spend a leisurely few hours outdoors watching the racing on a sunny summer evening while in the final stages of recovery. My job would fit in to one of the categories mentioned and my employer would not want me at work unless I was 100% and although a lot better, I am not there yet.

I have stated in my original post that being at the races while certified sick would not look great, I know that. If this issue got to HR, the first thing they would do is look at my past illness history, they would see there has been no sick days in over 3 years. They would look at my personnel file and see there were no performance or disciplinary issues whatsoever over many years. So while being at the races might not look good initially when they look a bit further it will be apparent that this is a valuable and responsible employee who went to the races for a leisurely few hours when almost recovered from his certified illness.

Particularly as posters here with knowledge on these matters say there is no basis for disciplinary action in this case which was the original and only question asked, I would not expect my employer give me grief either now or in the future on this issue. I expect I will be fully recovered by Monday and back to my usual turn up on time every time, doing a good job and not giving my employer any hassle whatsoever, same as I have been doing for years.
 
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Trying to pick horses taxes my brain too much so the odd time I'm at the races I just back the grey horses. No picking to it and easy to spot in running.
 
michaelm said:
Trying to pick horses taxes my brain too much so the odd time I'm at the races I just back the grey horses. No picking to it and easy to spot in running.
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I used to do the same with greyhounds... that or pick the same number each time.

Maybe the OP can use that line if they bump into a colleague :)
 
Ceist Beag said:
What's very interesting here is that the OP has absolutely no intention of going back to work before the cert is up, despite the fact they feel perfectly fine again. That says a lot to me.
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I agree. I would be disgusted if one of my employees carried on like the poster is doing. If I saw one of my employees carry on like that I would carry out a formal disciplinary process and ensure they got no pay rises going forward. He is letting his whole team, and himself/herself, down.
 
CuriousCork said:
I agree. I would be disgusted if one of my employees carried on like the poster is doing. If I saw one of my employees carry on like that I would carry out a formal disciplinary process and ensure they got no pay rises going forward. He is letting his whole team, and himself/herself, down.
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Depends on the job though... that was my initial reaction based on my role. But what if the OP is an air traffic controller? Or drives a fire engine?
 
Johnno75 said:
I never suggested introducing anything. I even suggested that a disciplinary was a non-runner. I’m giving some real-world advice here. Common sense.
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I might be miss-reading, but you said " There is always a risk of disciplinary process." Are you saying what you meant is that there is no risk of a disciplinary process?
 
Leo said:
I might be miss-reading, but you said " There is always a risk of disciplinary process." Are you saying what you meant is that there is no risk of a disciplinary process?
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No. There is always a risk of disciplinary process. The outcome however (if conducted fairly) would more than likely be in favour of the employee in this instance.

What I didn’t suggest was that disciplinary process should be invoked (or introduced). Maybe I have misunderstood your point, but for clarity, as a boss, I fully understand the rights of employees and will always give the benefit of the doubt. That said, my own personal view might well be influenced by an employee who is unable to attend work based on their being certified sick on the one hand, and then sees fit to attend a crowded social event on the other.

That said, I don’t know the OP’s employer. They may well think otherwise.

As it happens, I’ve worked for an employer who has dismissed an employee who was seen out and about whilst on certified paid sick leave. I’m not saying it’s right but it all depends on the circumstances.
 
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