Gay Marraige For or Against

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MOB said:
Not wishing to drag the post off topic, but it isn't. In general, it is in fact true. Male and female brains are different.
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Women smell better than men but generally leave the toilet filthier than men...ask any plumber he'll tell you that.
 
I believe, as other posters have said, that if a gay couple wanted to adopt that they would be more than likely more committed and dedicated parents than the average straight couple
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Why? Because they can finally have what they are naturally deprived of? Would they be as committed down the line once they encounter issues etc.
How many gay people here actually believe that gay adoption is necessary and also is wanted by the majority of the gay community?
 
MOB said:
Not wishing to drag the post off topic, but it isn't. In general, it is in fact true. Male and female brains are different.
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Agree with Jaybird.

What is important is WHAT parents are thinking, not how they think it, it is irrelevant if a male uses more of his left hemisphere to complete a thought process and a female uses more of her right so long as the net result of both thought process are the same opinion. Opinions are based on what someone has learned through environment, culture, education, peer group and to some degree upbringing. Sometimes education can override what someone has been brought up to believe. With opinions it cannot be categorically stated that men think differently to women. Its a ridiculous generalisation to make.

So in the case of gay parents, it is irrelevant how the thought process are formed, it is only important what they think. And there is no reason to believe that gay parents will think any differently about what is right for a child than straight parents.
In fact, it is likely they will foster a more open mind having possibly already experienced negative attitudes to gay people in their own lives, so they are likely to express the importance of embracing all sexualities to their child either explicitly or implicitly, resulting in a more broad minded individual - not a bad thing IMO.
 
MrMan said:
Why? Because they can finally have what they are naturally deprived of? Would they be as committed down the line once they encounter issues etc.
How many gay people here actually believe that gay adoption is necessary and also is wanted by the majority of the gay community?
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Your comments are revealing. You seem to think that the gay community are banging down the doors in a rush to adopt. The point of the argument is not that they can 'finally have what they are naturally deprived of'. Sure this is also true of straight couples who cannot bear children naturally.

You need to distinguish between a community seeking the right not to be legally excluded from being even considered as adoptive parents, and those who actually want to be considered as adoptive parents. I suspect close to 100% of the gay community and a high proportion of the straight community are in the former, and I imagine only a very small percentage of the gay community is in the latter. Fighting for equality is not restricted to those who are being affected.
 
roland said:
Your comments are revealing. You seem to think that the gay community are banging down the doors in a rush to adopt. The point of the argument is not that they can 'finally have what they are naturally deprived of'. Sure this is also true of straight couples who cannot bear children naturally.

You need to distinguish between a community seeking the right not to be legally excluded from being even considered as adoptive parents, and those who actually want to be considered as adoptive parents. I suspect close to 100% of the gay community and a high proportion of the straight community are in the former, and I imagine only a very small percentage of the gay community is in the latter. Fighting for equality is not restricted to those who are being affected.
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Obviously not that revealing when my own belief would be that very view in the gay community actually have yearned to have children. As a heterosexual I have a limited view as to whether this is in any way correct, that is why I asked for the views on the subject from any of our gay posters.
 
What would sexuality have to do with the desire to procreate?

Im finding some of the assumptions made here quite funny, about what members of the gay community may or may not want, fundamentally they are human and would have the same humans needs and desires as anyone else.

Any gay friend I have is indistinguishable from any straight friend I have in all matters of lifestyle except they form relationships with the same sex. They still pay mortgages, go to the cinema, watch tv, do the shopping, go to work, walk the dog etc.... Theres no major lifestyle difference other than who they choose for a partner.
 
MOB said:
In general, it is in fact true. Male and female brains are different.
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It sure is.

It's also a fact that all minds are different, be they male. female, straight, LGBT, Irish, Chinese or Martian.

And what matters more, the way your brain is constructed or what you actually think & do ?
 
truthseeker said:
What would sexuality have to do with the desire to procreate?

Im finding some of the assumptions made here quite funny, about what members of the gay community may or may not want, fundamentally they are human and would have the same humans needs and desires as anyone else.

Any gay friend I have is indistinguishable from any straight friend I have in all matters of lifestyle except they form relationships with the same sex. They still pay mortgages, go to the cinema, watch tv, do the shopping, go to work, walk the dog etc.... Theres no major lifestyle difference other than who they choose for a partner.
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I am assuming you are hetero as am I so we cannot really speak for the gay community. Yes they are human but they have a different inclination sexually to us so it is not a great strecth to imagine they may also have a different inclination to parenting. ( is it not better to err on the side of caution?0.
I do think it is ok to question gay rights, I do find it funny just how touchy some of the posters are here to anything that doesn't openly embrace gay awareness. In another thread 'gay rancher' there was a joke with the punchline that the cowboy was a cross dresser, but someone here wanted it changed to transvestite cowboy rather than gay cowboy, I mean come on it was a joke, why so sensitive?
I don't know if that particular poster was himsef gay but if so you would worry about the ability to deal with the flak that would be inevitably thrown at an adoptive child it he couldn't handle an innocent joke.
 
MrMan said:
I am assuming you are hetero as am I so we cannot really speak for the gay community.
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I wouldnt presume I can speak for the hetero community either, but as a human I can empathise with other humans regardless of their sexuality.

MrMan said:
Yes they are human but they have a different inclination sexually to us so it is not a great strecth to imagine they may also have a different inclination to parenting. ( is it not better to err on the side of caution?
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Why would that be? My interests in the bedroom have absolutely no bearing on whether or not I want to raise children. In fact, my sexual proclivities dont have any bearing on any other part of my life, except in partner choice. And even in that one area there is always room for compromise.

There seems to be an assumption by those opposed to gay parenting that being gay implies many differences. I dont see it that way. I see a human being, who sleeps, eats, works, relaxes, visits their mammy, drives a car, watches tv, reads and does any one of a number of activities that I myself do - who they sleep with is a very tiny part of what makes the person.

How would you feel if peoples perception of you was defined by your sexual behaviour only? Surely its only a small aspect of what makes you what you are?
 
truthseeker said:
I wouldnt presume I can speak for the hetero community either, but as a human I can empathise with other humans regardless of their sexuality.



Why would that be? My interests in the bedroom have absolutely no bearing on whether or not I want to raise children. In fact, my sexual proclivities dont have any bearing on any other part of my life, except in partner choice. And even in that one area there is always room for compromise.

There seems to be an assumption by those opposed to gay parenting that being gay implies many differences. I dont see it that way. I see a human being, who sleeps, eats, works, relaxes, visits their mammy, drives a car, watches tv, reads and does any one of a number of activities that I myself do - who they sleep with is a very tiny part of what makes the person.

How would you feel if peoples perception of you was defined by your sexual behaviour only? Surely its only a small aspect of what makes you what you are?
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It goes back to my argument that we are basically wired in a certain manner. I base this on the assumption that gay people do not choose to be gay but are rather born gay so there is a difference even if a subtle one.
People have perceptions of others for a multitude of reasons, people here base perceptions of me on my profession I don't get hung up on it.
 
jaybird said:
RE the joke, it wasn't accurate, and it was reinforcing an inaccurate stereotype. I'm not gay and I teach my children that so called innocent jokes are often far from it. Of course you see it as an innocent joke, not being a gay man you wouldn't see how being confused with a transvestite might be irritating. Being aware of unintentional offensive and old fashioned "jokes" hardly makes you unsuitable to be a parent.

And re sexually different = parenting different, that hardly follows does it? You think all hetero people have the same sexual inclinations? Its not a simple gay/straight divide, there is a massive spectrum of human sexuality. You might as well argue that someon who is into s&m may have different inclinations on parenting. Or cooking, its just as likely, and just as irrelevant.
Its fairly simple to be honest. Lots of hetero people would like to have children. Lots of gay people would like to have children. Plenty of both would have no interest whatsoever, and quite a few of both shouldn't be allowed as they would be terrible at it.
At the end of the day, its safe to say that anyone not interested would not be applying to adopt. Anyone unsuitable would be screened out durin the selection process. To suggest that some may not be interested or may not be very good at it is a good reason to exclude an entire section of society is just bizarre.
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Your right Jaybird the joke wasn't accurate, jokes tend to have that about them (they usually are not based on factual storytelling). Nobody confused the two as it is possible to be gay and a tv. The following post that I wrote 'surely if he was a transvestite he must be gay' was a jibe at the stereotype and not an ignorant statement from the dark ages. I think people should lighten up and stop whinging about the smallest of things.
 
MrMan said:
It goes back to my argument that we are basically wired in a certain manner. I base this on the assumption that gay people do not choose to be gay but are rather born gay so there is a difference even if a subtle one.
People have perceptions of others for a multitude of reasons, people here base perceptions of me on my profession I don't get hung up on it.
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If we are wired in a certain manner then surely a child is going to be wired in a certain manner also and no amount of straight or gay parenting is going to change that wiring?

SLF argued that children mimic us as a reason for gay people not to raise children. Being wired in a certain manner debunks that line of reasoning.
 
MrMan said:
It goes back to my argument that we are basically wired in a certain manner. I base this on the assumption that gay people do not choose to be gay but are rather born gay so there is a difference even if a subtle one.
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I on the other hand think differently I believe that most gay men are so because their fathers were not able to show them the love they are supposed to.

Gay women I don't know about.

Maybe they saw too many big, fat, smelly, hairy men and thought "yuck".

truthseeker said:
If we are wired in a certain manner then surely a child is going to be wired in a certain manner also and no amount of straight or gay parenting is going to change that wiring?

SLF argued that children mimic us as a reason for gay people not to raise children. Being wired in a certain manner debunks that line of reasoning.
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With children the basic wiring is already there it's the fine tuning that is the issue, as to what I said

S.L.F said:
We have different ways of thinking and since children mimic us, they need the differences we have in order for them to develop.
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The key phrase was "in order for them to develop".
 
truthseeker said:
If we are wired in a certain manner then surely a child is going to be wired in a certain manner also and no amount of straight or gay parenting is going to change that wiring?

SLF argued that children mimic us as a reason for gay people not to raise children. Being wired in a certain manner debunks that line of reasoning.
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Myself and SLF have not started an anti gay adoption party so our views can differ. I obviously cannot articulate my point on this subject as it has been misunderstood time and time again so lets just say that I just don't have a positive feeling about gay adoption and although thats how i feel I'm sure that my point doesn't matter if I am in the minority on the subject.
If it went to a national vote it would be probably allowed going by the number of pro gay adoption on AAM, so my opinion is hardly a threat.
 
MrMan said:
I obviously cannot articulate my point on this subject as it has been misunderstood time and time again so lets just say that I just don't have a positive feeling about gay adoption and although thats how i feel I'm sure that my point doesn't matter if I am in the minority on the subject.
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I don't think the other side have done so well at all they have not proved a single thing to me.

Keep on yacking on about equal rights and all that and how gays are discriminated against with regard to gay adoption.

MrMan said:
If it went to a national vote it would be probably allowed going by the number of pro gay adoption on AAM, so my opinion is hardly a threat.
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I very much doubt that people would be in favour of such a move.

The general feeling is that there are loads of straight couples who are childless and have in my view much more to offer a child.

MrMan said:
Myself and SLF have not started an anti gay adoption party so our views can differ.
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We haven't started one yet.

What do we call it?

K.A.S.P. (keep adoption straight party)

or

M.M.S.N. (MrMan says "No")

and the slogan would be something like "traditional values are the best values"
 
S.L.F said:
I on the other hand think differently I believe that most gay men are so because their fathers were not able to show them the love they are supposed to.

Gay women I don't know about.
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Yeah, I'm sure thats why SLF

:rolleyes:
 
I'm against gay marriage personally. I'm a squillion times more against adoption by gay couples. Call me old fashioned but I'm tired of having gay rights forced down my neck by so-called 'liberals'.
 
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