Gay Marraige For or Against

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"As stated above, under the adoption legislation, it is possible for a single person to adopt if the Adoption Board considers it desirable and it must regard the welfare of the child as its first and paramount consideration. This means that if you are living with a same-sex partner, you may apply to the Board to adopt a child in your own right, intending to raise the child with your partner. However, your partner would have no rights in relation to the child."

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Seems like the welfare of the child can be be assured by same sex couples after all, even in Ireland...it seems to me that the marriage ban issue is more to keep the daily-mail reader types happy more than anything else.
 
jaybird said:
I have to agree with the airy fairy bit. Its just such a vague reasoning, IMO. I have understoof your point, I just don't think it makes sense, and I think you are confusing your own point.
Organs to create life to opposite sexes? Can't disagree with you there. But we aren't living in caves, we aren't limited by our biology. You could as easily argue that Nature provides us with all kinds of diseases and conditions, so we are clearly meant to die young. We don't need to follow nature, and in fact the human race spends most of its resources and intellect on not doing so.

Arguing natures way as a reason that gay people shouldn't have children is just wishy washy, unless you don't use medicine, eat processed food, or believe in IVF or heart transplants.
It seems more likely that your vague nagging doubt is just an emotional reaction that you are looking for a rational explanation for, rather than the other way around, IMHO.
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I have no emotional attachment to the subject so that wouldn't be the case. I understand how people can misinterpret the argument, like when you say 'clearly we are supposed to die' we actually do die in the end no matter how much we try to alter natures course.
Natures way may seem wishy washy I totally understand that especially if somebody is vehemently in support of gay rights which you seem to be, gay rights is not an issue i have any great passion for.
Yours and most others argument is to paraphrase 'all you need is love' which is hard to argue against, but I believe the natural inclination to parenting comes from straight couples.
 
wavejumper said:
"As stated above, under the adoption legislation, it is possible for a single person to adopt if the Adoption Board considers it desirable and it must regard the welfare of the child as its first and paramount consideration. This means that if you are living with a same-sex partner, you may apply to the Board to adopt a child in your own right, intending to raise the child with your partner. However, your partner would have no rights in relation to the child."

[broken link removed]

Seems like the welfare of the child can be be assured by same sex couples after all, even in Ireland...it seems to me that the marriage ban issue is more to keep the daily-mail reader types happy more than anything else.
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What would you describe as a 'daily mail reader type'. You have got to love a bit of snobbery on a friday afternoon.
 
Also MM, I don't get vexed at people for expressing an opinion, I get vexed at the thought of a whole 10% of the population being denied a basic right based on prejudice and when I see people justifiying this prejudice by saying that a child is better served if the parents have non-matching genitalia or that the child will be bullied more by bigots because they don't conform to said bigots blinkered outlook on life, then yea, I get vexed.

We should look at progressive contries like Sweden and Norway and The Netherlands for inspiration, not have legislation dictated by fear of some red neck bully in a playground.
 
BTW, just for clarification, many people have given their views on gay 'marriage' and also adoption - personally, I think both should be permitted.

How many of those in favour though think that all things being equal, a child is better off with straight man/woman adoptive parents?

I do.

Or do people really think there is no difference? (people who are in favour that is)
 
We should look at progressive contries like Sweden and Norway and The Netherlands for inspiration, not have legislation dictated by fear of some red neck bully in a playground.
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Would that be the daily mail reader by any chance?
 
Caveat said:
...and I've noticed the more irritated you get, the more controversial and slippery you get! :D :p
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I'm actually getting close to embracing gay parents as a means to opening my mind to greater awareness and to gaining intellectual superiority, but then my cave is quite comfy so it's a tough call!
 
wavejumper said:
Also MM, I don't get vexed at people for expressing an opinion, I get vexed at the thought of a whole 10% of the population being denied a basic right based on prejudice and when I see people justifiying this prejudice by saying that a child is better served if the parents have non-matching genitalia or that the child will be bullied more by bigots because they don't conform to said bigots blinkered outlook on life, then yea, I get vexed.

We should look at progressive contries like Sweden and Norway and The Netherlands for inspiration, not have legislation dictated by fear of some red neck bully in a playground.
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1 I need first point out there is no basic right to adoption for anybody.

2 I'm not prejudiced against anybody and I very much resent the allegation.

3 I never said anything about children being bullied.

4 As for this being based on fear I don't see it like that I see it more as basic common sense.
 
Caveat said:
Or do people really think there is no difference? (people who are in favour that is)
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I dont see the difference. Parents come in all different shapes, sizes, races, religions, male, female, bad habits, no bad habits, addictions, no addictions, brainy, not brainy, happy, unhappy, good parenting skills, bad parenting skills, etc, etc, etc....

I dont see why any gay couple with a random selection of the above (and other) traits, who are committed for life should make any better or worse a fist of it than any straight couple.

The is no such thing as the Perfect parents. People do what they can under a given set of circumstances, and some people make a right mess of it and others do quite well. There is no manual to guide them on their way.

What is the difference between straight and gay people that will change how much they can love and raise a child?
2 sets of matching genitalia against a mismatched pair? So what?
 
truthseeker said:
I dont see the difference. Parents come in all different shapes, sizes, races, religions, male, female, bad habits, no bad habits, addictions, no addictions, brainy, not brainy, happy, unhappy, good parenting skills, bad parenting skills, etc, etc, etc....

I dont see why any gay couple with a random selection of the above (and other) traits, who are committed for life should make any better or worse a fist of it than any straight couple.

The is no such thing as the Perfect parents. People do what they can under a given set of circumstances, and some people make a right mess of it and others do quite well. There is no manual to guide them on their way.

What is the difference between straight and gay people that will change how much they can love and raise a child?
2 sets of matching genitalia against a mismatched pair? So what?
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Do men and women think the same, no.

We have different ways of thinking and since children mimic us, they need the differences we have in order for them to develop.

I'm tired of banging my head off this ever-so PC wall so once again I'm leaving this till something new comes up.
 
Caveat said:
How many of those in favour though think that all things being equal, a child is better off with straight man/woman adoptive parents?

I do.

Or do people really think there is no difference? (people who are in favour that is)
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I think it depends on the individuals concerned, how committed they are, their family circle and so on.

As part of a 'straight' couple with children I am very conscious that I am far from a perfect parent, although I try very hard and constantly question myself. Beside the laptop is yet another book on childrearing that I have just read ( 'Detoxing Childhood, What parents need to know to raise happy successful children'). :eek:

I believe, as other posters have said, that if a gay couple wanted to adopt that they would be more than likely more committed and dedicated parents than the average straight couple.
 
S.L.F said:
Do men and women think the same, no.
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I think you will find that each individual thinks their own way, some men think like some other men, some men think like some women, some women think like some other women and some women think like some men.
Its a massive generalisation to say that men and women dont think the same.

So long as the thinkers have open minds and are not indoctrinating children with dogma or narrow minded ways then the thinking of the parents shouldnt negatively affect the childs development.

S.L.F said:
We have different ways of thinking and since children mimic us, they need the differences we have in order for them to develop.
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Children dont just pick up what they learn from their parents, they learn from a myriad of external sources.
A child rarely picks up the accent of their parents, they pick up the accent of their peer group.

Just as a real world example, my own parents would not have been open to the idea of marriage for gay couples and definitely not for adoption rights. However - I have made my own mind up on the subject despite what they thought.
 
"Its a massive generalisation to say that men and women dont think the same."

Not wishing to drag the post off topic, but it isn't. In general, it is in fact true. Male and female brains are different.
 
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