FG mugged the middle class and never touched the banks.

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All I see from this election is that it is becoming increasingly harder to govern as the gap between the expectation of the people and the reality of the situation we are in seems to be widening. As one pundit put it yesterday, it is ironic that the only people who are really keen on a FF-FG coalition here are the left parties! SF, AAA, PBP all know damn well that their policies don't stack up if actually faced with implementing them so they have no intention of going into government. Much easier to remain in opposition and hammer whoever next takes on the task of trying to govern. We lost a high number of TDs in this election who took responsibility in the last term and who tried to tackle the mess they inherited. Sure they made mistakes along the way but at least they had the courage to take it on. They have now been replaced in part by more individuals who have no intention of taking on the responsibility of governing in the national interest so from my point of view this has been a very disappointing election. Sure the people have spoken but sure there are a lot of people talking out of their hole in this country...
 
Ceist Beag said:
All I see from this election is that it is becoming increasingly harder to govern as the gap between the expectation of the people and the reality of the situation we are in seems to be widening. As one pundit put it yesterday, it is ironic that the only people who are really keen on a FF-FG coalition here are the left parties! SF, AAA, PBP all know damn well that their policies don't stack up if actually faced with implementing them so they have no intention of going into government. Much easier to remain in opposition and hammer whoever next takes on the task of trying to govern. We lost a high number of TDs in this election who took responsibility in the last term and who tried to tackle the mess they inherited. Sure they made mistakes along the way but at least they had the courage to take it on. They have now been replaced in part by more individuals who have no intention of taking on the responsibility of governing in the national interest so from my point of view this has been a very disappointing election. Sure the people have spoken but sure there are a lot of people talking out of their hole in this country...
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Your last sentence definitely includes politicians, let's see do they learn this time round.
 
The thought occurs... "How many Healy Raes does it take to fix a pothole" ?

But maybe voting for them is a logical response to a broken system where you have to get your local TD into play to sort out issues that (a) shouldn't need any political involvement to get done and should be done as a matter of course or (b) local councillors don't seem to be able to get moving.
Until we have a system that can be managed directly between the public, local government and councillors, we're going to see strong independents like this.
 
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odyssey06 said:
The thought occurs... "How many Healy Raes does it take to fix a pothole" ?

But maybe voting for them is a logical response to a broken system where you have to get your local TD into play to sort out issues that (a) shouldn't need any political involvement to get done and should be done as a matter of course or (b) local councillors don't seem to be able to get moving.
Until we have a system that can be managed directly between the public, local government and councillors, we're going to see strong independents like this.
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Fair Points.
 
I am not in the Multi millionaire class but I am quite tired listening to certain parties and Independents coming out with slogans of "tax the rich" and the "rich getting richer" and the "poor getting poorer" and by taxing all the billionaires in this country that we can create Utopia.
The reality I would think is a lot different.
Are there any people in this country with assets worth a billion in the country.
How many of the millionaires have the vast majority of their money tied up in the businesses which is giving employment in the country.
There is inequality in the country in a lot of ways but it is quite difficult to avoid all inequality.

A lot of successful businesses are owned and run by driven people. Do we want to drive them out of the country.
I am not very political just a mild interest but I just hate to see certain political parties promising the unattainable to people.

It is not to long ago since Syriza in Greece were being portrayed in this country as the model to follow.

To be quite honest we are in potentially very difficult and politically unstable times and we need quite an amount of realism from all parties.

The Shinners are promising their supporters the sun/moon etc but they are too cowardly to enter Government until they are the largest party. That in my book is party before country in a very blatant way. Everyone else's responsibility to govern and theirs to oppose everything.
 
Dermot, I fully agree. Lots of political groups (and Vincent Browne in his recent article in the IT) drone on about inequality. Life is unequal:
  • Not everybody can play golf like Rory McIlroy (will SF solve that inequality?)
  • Some people are more intelligent than others (who will solve that inequality?)
  • Some people are better looking than others
  • Some people are more driven/ambitious than others
  • Some people earn more than others
  • Some people are more successful than others (the SF solution is to penalise those who are successful so as to re-distribute their success to those who are less successful/less ambitious/could not be bothered)
The so called "wealth tax" might satisfy the Looney Left supporters (a policy of jealousy masquerading as equality), but it has little thought for the impact it would have on many family/small businesses who employ lots of people in this country. So if the owner(s) of such businesses have to pay a wealth tax on top of income tax, Corporation tax, PRSI, USC it would not take long for such additional costs to impact business growth and employment.
Rather than penalise success (jealousy) we need to encourage more ambition, risk taking and success. I look at those two young Collison brothers from Limerick (I think) who are well educated, clearly intelligent, won the Young Scientist award some years ago and have now developed a business worth over €1bn. That should be celebrated and we need to encourage more of their like. But the "wealth tax" brigade simply see such people as capitalists to be stripped (albeit slowly) of the wealth to support those who (in many cases) have no education and/or no ambition, other than getting somebody else to finance their lifestyle. And unfortunately the Looney Left are only pandering to such groups by letting them believe that their plight is somebody else's fault.
If protest was a policy this country would have solved all its problems. But unfortunately certain groups are more interested in protest than finding workable solutions.
One may campaign in poetry but one must govern in prose.
 
Dermot said:
...
There is inequality in the country in a lot of ways but it is quite difficult to avoid all inequality.
A lot of successful businesses are owned and run by driven people. Do we want to drive them out of the country.
I am not very political just a mild interest but I just hate to see certain political parties promising the unattainable to people....
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The problem is the inequality appears to be getting worse for a increasing numbers of people. Its now sucking in some of what was previous middle earners. So its a bigger vote.

I would say its more about people wanting to reduce their costs of living (bills & expenses) which is cripplingly them. They are getting hit by new and increasing bills all the time and are less able to pay. If this was improved, they wouldn't be that interested what others are paying. The pressure to tax the wealthy more is a symptom of that. "tax the rich" is not an issue in itself.
 
AlbacoreA said:
The problem is the inequality appears to be getting worse for a increasing numbers of people. Its now sucking in some of what was previous middle earners. So its a bigger vote.

I would say its more about people wanting to reduce their costs of living (bills & expenses) which is cripplingly them. They are getting hit by new and increasing bills all the time and are less able to pay. If this was improved, they wouldn't be that interested what others are paying. The pressure to tax the wealthy more is a symptom of that. "tax the rich" is not an issue in itself.
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The two best ways to control a society is by the sword ( fear of death ) and by debt.
 
AlbacoreA said:
The problem is the inequality appears to be getting worse for a increasing numbers of people. Its now sucking in some of what was previous middle earners. So its a bigger vote.

I would say its more about people wanting to reduce their costs of living (bills & expenses) which is cripplingly them. They are getting hit by new and increasing bills all the time and are less able to pay. If this was improved, they wouldn't be that interested what others are paying. The pressure to tax the wealthy more is a symptom of that. "tax the rich" is not an issue in itself.
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So how do you reduce the inequality?? reduce taxes, increase pay, more state benefits
 
Inequality is something of a myth. We have an excellent State education system here. And nowadays there is no place for people in businesses based solely on who they are or who their parents are. Everyone I know who has done well has done so through hard work. And where people have not done as well, it's been a result of laziness, plain and simple. Yet you hear comments like "he/she has been lucky" etc. No, he/she actually got up in the morning notwithstanding the hangover, got the bus to UCD, went to the lecture rather than playing pool, studied rather taking a holiday, got the 1st, and then went to work as an underpaid and indentured slave in a graduate trainee programme. Yeah, it's all about luck alright...
 
Gordon Gekko said:
Inequality is something of a myth. We have an excellent State education system here. And nowadays there is no place for people in businesses based solely on who they are or who their parents are. Everyone I know who has done well has done so through hard work. And where people have not done as well, it's been a result of laziness, plain and simple. Yet you hear comments like "he/she has been lucky" etc. No, he/she actually got up in the morning notwithstanding the hangover, got the bus to UCD, went to the lecture rather than playing pool, studied rather taking a holiday, got the 1st, and then went to work as an underpaid and indentured slave in a graduate trainee programme. Yeah, it's all about luck alright...
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So, the people who do not get on are lazy, is that right! What a wonderfully simple and naive view to have of the world, almost childlike. I am afraid hard work alone is not a panacea for financial success. Other factors including, right place at the right time, good patronage, certain circumstances and indeed good old fashioned luck do all play important parts in achieving financial success. Read about Warren Buffet, Chuck Fenney etc and you will get a feel for what I am talking about. I do agree with the point that hard work does significantly contribute to a possible successful outcome, as the odds increase of attaining financial success ( i.e. You are not banking on winning the lottery as your strategy for becoming financially successful ) but that is all.
 
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Someone watched too much Disney as a kid. The the thread isn't about the meaning of life. Its about the election result.
 
Mr Holmes said:
So, the people who do not get on are lazy, is that right! What a wonderfully simple and naive view to have of the world, almost childlike. I am afraid hard work alone is not a panacea for financial success. Other factors including, right place at the right time, good patronage, certain circumstances and indeed good old fashioned luck do all play important parts in achieving financial success. Read about Warren Buffet, Chuck Fenney etc and you will get a feel for what I am talking about. I do agree with the point that hard work does significantly contribute to a possible successful outcome, as the odds increase of attaining financial success ( i.e. You are not banking on winning the lottery as your strategy for becoming financially successful ) but that is all.
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I fundamentally disagree. In a country like ours that doesn't have class structures like (say) the UK and which provides excellent State education, 99 times out of 100 hard work will get you ahead. I'd also be interested to hear your definition of "getting on". How are Warren Buffett and Chuck Feeney relevant? The standard of living in Ireland is excellent relative to other 1st world countries. Someone on €50k a year has a great standard of living. In London, they wouldn't. There will always be hard luck stories, but in the main you get out of life what you put in.
 
Gordon Gekko said:
....The standard of living in Ireland is excellent relative to other 1st world countries. Someone on €50k a year has a great standard of living. ...
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...Of the two million tax cases, which represent 2.85 million adults, two-thirds have gross annual incomes of under the average earnings of €35,600. ....
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The top 10 per cent of tax cases, representing 200,000 households, report incomes above €75,000.
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That obviously has an impact on how people vote.
 
AlbacoreA said:
That obviously has an impact on how people vote.
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Indeed it does. Which is why FG's slogan around "keeping the recovery going" was so ill advised. There is a huge cohort of people who do not understand how bad things were with the Troika. The mainstream parties ran such a bad campaign. Naive almost. Groups such as Sinn Fein and AAA are soft targets if you go after them properly. For example, remember their trips to Greece and the arguments for "doing what the Greeks did". They're no different to the wannabe beauty queen who craves world peace, other than the fact that they don't even want the tiara!
 
Cervelo said:
But have the people not just voted in a very different government.
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They voted for change.

I think FG and Labour have managed to make themselves very similar to FF for many voters. So they voted for something different.
 
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