Feather beds for wealthy retired

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" But to expect anybody not to claim a benefit to which they are legally entitled makes absolutely no sense." The aforementioned is the mindset that needs to change...it should make sense. I don't need it so I don't take it , I leave it for someone who does. Because that is not going to happen in real life, then means testing is really the only solution. The fair minded would not object to means testing, neither would it have to be particularly invasive . As for golf clubs, Mercedes , yachts etc of course there is nothing intrinsically wrong about having some, all or multiples of same ...nor is there any harm in boasting about them. But what i object to is those who laugh at their surplus state entitlements David Drumm like, while those for whom it would make a difference are deprived of it.
 
Protocol said:
Social insurance benefits are taxed, that happens already.

Child benefit is not taxed.

Social assistance is not taxed.
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Yes I'm aware of that, my point was to tax all income (inc all state benefits), then increase their level so people who need them most benefit most.
 
The majority of (oldies) exist on Old Age Pension, It is not a ransom.

Most (oldies) paid up to 67% income tax in their working life.

Very ,very few have high other private pensions.

I don,t like the unfounded tone to this thread.
 
In fairness, I don't think anyone is having a pop at the pension, it's the sign (and benefit to all) of a civilised society that we look after the vulnerable, including the old. It's just with an aging population, the idea of entitlement to certain benefits if you are above a certain income may not be the most efficient use of resources. It's certainly not fair, but we all benefit from roads/the guards/an education etc, and that never seems to be considered by the "I worked all my life, I'm entitled to X" brigade. No, you're not. It fractures society into competing interest groups. And those at the bottom get forgotten.
 
T Mc Gibney,

I take it you meant our OAP is higher than Uk. Theirs is miserable! and you tell me they paid up to 98% !, seems very unfair by UK to have lowish oap..
From memory (dangerous ) I think in 70,s and 80,s the standard PAYE Tax was high ?
 
Yes it was high, but not everyone paid 67% and they didn't pay stealth taxes either.

The comparison on both levels with the UK is alarming.
 
I was in Woodies this morning saving 10% on the Thursday old phart discount. I was in the Ormonde Cinema yesterday watching "The Martian" at the discounted Wednesday rate of €6 a ticket.
I have a few quid in the bank. I don't smoke and drink very little. My wife is the same.
During the week there were a few news clips interviews about people struggling on low income. The one thing I noticed with one woman was the lovely nails and hair-do that she had as she complained about not having enough money. In the other clip I admired the kitchen and kitchen accessories behind the woman as she also complained about creche fees etc. Her kitchen was far superior to mine.
I am not altogether certain that some people on low incomes are spending their social welfare on food and shelter. Quite a lot of it is going on drink, cigarettes and the above. Is this any different to the lads in the golf club....just on a different level?
 
Sarenco said:
Absolutely agree.

At today's exchange rates, our maximum contributory OAP is now around 35% more generous than the UK equivalent. As you say, that's alarming.
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Not sure am I with you here?
Our OAP @ 35% more than UK, its still not a kings ransom.
The UK pension seems to be miserly, not sure its a comparison we want to have ?.

I do appreciate all pensions have to be paid for but starting with UK,s pittance as as an example is that good/fair?
 
Gerry Canning said:
The UK pension seems to be miserly, not sure its a comparison we want to have ?.
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Why not compare though? After all the UK is a competing economy, and quite similar to our own in many respects.

There seems to be no sign of any groundswell of opinion over there that their OAP pension is too low, or that their pensioners are particularly badly off.

Yet our pension is 35% higher, and the actual difference is probably even higher again when the current exchange rate is discounted to a more typical median level.

It's not beyond the bounds of possibility that our State pension is simply unaffordable.
 
Sarenco said:
Absolutely agree.

At today's exchange rates, our maximum contributory OAP is now around 35% more generous than the UK equivalent. As you say, that's alarming.
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Hasn't Iain Duncan Smith , Secretary of State for work and pensions stated that a single tier state pension of approx Stg £ 155 weekly is to be paid from 2016 ?
 
He may well have. I know that a single-tier pension is to be introduced in the UK in 2016 but I thought that the amount of that payment was yet to be decided.

The existing basic rate pension in the UK is currently £115.95 per week (£6,029.40 per annum) and I know that this can be topped up in some circumstances by an extra earnings-linked payment.

In any event, even £155 per week (£8,060 per annum) is still around 9% lower than our OAP at today's exchange rates.
 
Deiseblue said:
Hasn't Iain Duncan Smith , Secretary of State for work and pensions stated that a single tier state pension of approx Stg £ 155 weekly is to be paid from 2016 ?
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Fair play Deiseblue - previous comparisons were comparing apples and oranges - the 35% differential is completely inappropriate for comparison purposes.
 
Dan Murray said:
Fair play Deiseblue - previous comparisons were comparing apples and oranges - the 35% differential is completely inappropriate for comparison purposes.
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It is impossible to do a pure "apples to apples" comparison between two systems with different eligibility criteria, benefits, pensionable ages, etc. Comparing the UK's incoming single-tier pension (as opposed to the UK's basic rate pension) to our own contributory old age pension also suffers from this problem.

In any event, whatever way you run the numbers, it is unarguable that our pension benefits are very materially more generous than the UK equivalent. That is really the key point.
 
Deiseblue said:
Hasn't Iain Duncan Smith , Secretary of State for work and pensions stated that a single tier state pension of approx Stg £ 155 weekly is to be paid from 2016 ?
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Aren't the VAT rates also generally lower in the UK, in particular on domestic electricity, gas, heating oil & solid fuel?
 
Sarenco said:
It is impossible to do a pure "apples to apples" comparison between two systems with different eligibility criteria, benefits, pensionable ages, etc. Comparing the UK's incoming single-tier pension (as opposed to the UK's basic rate pension) to our own contributory old age pension also suffers from this problem.

In any event, whatever way you run the numbers, it is unarguable that our pension benefits are very materially more
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Post amended , I screwed up a calculation !
 
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UK VAT rates are certainly somewhat lower - the standard rate in the UK is 20%, versus 23% here - but the really big difference is council tax in the UK.

Currently, the average council tax bill in England is £1,468 (just short of €2,000) per annum.
 
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