EV Vs ICE Issues: Range

[Baby boomer]

And an ID3 has the same wheelbase and interior space as a passat i dont know why that bothers you so much, VW have said this themselves.

And of course, VW wouldn't tell a lie would they? Er, dieselgate anyone?

And what selective specs you refer to! A Passat is a full half metre longer than an ID3 even though they have similar wheelbases. Passat is also slightly wider. Chalk and cheese. Passat has generous cabin space and generous boot space. ID3 has one or the other. You can fold down the rear seats and get a Passat sized boot. So forget taking a family of four to the airport with luggage unless they plonk their suitcases on their lap! (Yeah, yeah, I know, how many times a year etc etc? Hardly the point, though.)

Look, the ID3 is a fine car, but it belongs in the VW Golf, Ford Focus, mid-range saloon category, not the larger family saloon category. It's just unsustainable to keep arguing that it's the equivalent of a Passat. Drop the shovel and stop digging.

 

[AlbacoreA]

A Passat is longer and wider than a 7 seat Touran. Touran has a lot more interior space. Just saying.

I've no idea what the interior space of an ID3 is or a Passat. The Passat obviously has a big ass boot.

 

[Blackrock1]

And of course, VW wouldn't tell a lie would they? Er, dieselgate anyone?

And what selective specs you refer to! A Passat is a full half metre longer than an ID3 even though they have similar wheelbases. Passat is also slightly wider. Chalk and cheese. Passat has generous cabin space and generous boot space. ID3 has one or the other. You can fold down the rear seats and get a Passat sized boot. So forget taking a family of four to the airport with luggage unless they plonk their suitcases on their lap! (Yeah, yeah, I know, how many times a year etc etc? Hardly the point, though.)

Look, the ID3 is a fine car, but it belongs in the VW Golf, Ford Focus, mid-range saloon category, not the larger family saloon category. It's just unsustainable to keep arguing that it's the equivalent of a Passat. Drop the shovel and stop digging.

What I said was correct , it upsets you for some reason , I’m not sure why. You were the one that add parameters to it.

 

[Baby boomer]

What I said was correct , it upsets you for some reason , I’m not sure why. You were the one that add parameters to it.

Look, it's possible to be technically correct and yet misleading at the same time. It is correct to say that the ID3 and the Passat have similar wheelbases. However, when that is used to assert that they are similar category vehicles, it becomes misleading. You have to look at a wider range of parameters, of which overall length is an obvious marker. When you do that it becomes obvious that the Passat is in the large saloon category and the ID3 is in the medium saloon category.

 

[Blackrock1]

Look, it's possible to be technically correct and yet misleading at the same time. It is correct to say that the ID3 and the Passat have similar wheelbases. However, when that is used to assert that they are similar category vehicles, it becomes misleading. You have to look at a wider range of parameters, of which overall length is an obvious marker. When you do that it becomes obvious that the Passat is in the large saloon category and the ID3 is in the medium saloon category.

no one asserted that, i simply stated the interior space in an ID 3 is comparable to a passat, most EVs (purpose built ones, not reused ICE platforms) have more interior space than the exterior would suggest due to more efficient packaging without having to accommodate an engine and drive train.

 

[Alkers86]

BTW is there anything to be said for fitting solar PV panels to the roof of EVs? Genuine question. Even 2 or 3 kw would be helpful on a sunny day.

Not really. 2kW or 3kW of solar panels is about 6-8 domestic panels which you see on houses, you wouldn't fit them on a truck, never mind a car.

Most EVs will not accept a charge of any lower than 1.2kW, so you'd need the area of three domestic solar panels to provide enough power to actually charge the battery and that's still way more than you'd fit on a car.

You might fit 600watts of a panel on a whole car roof or something, might keep your battery topped up while parked at the airport or would be good while camping but won't do much anything in terms of providing actual range.

 

[Alkers86]

If only there was something that gave the best of both worlds?

i.e. the ability to do 90% of one’s motoring on electric power but also the ability to drive using coventional fuel if needs be.

Imagine…you could drive to the shops, drop the kids off, go to the gym, or do a reasonably normal commute, all on a single charge.

But you could also drive to Killarney/Donegal/whereever if you fancied it.

It would be perfect and a game changer.

SOME PHEVs are like this. We have an ampera (2012), which has 45km winter electric range and over 60km in the summer. My wife does all her commuting (40km round trip) without using any petrol as the battery is charged each day.

When the battery is empty (or you tell it to maintain the charge), the petrol engine kicks in and you get about 5.5l/100km, as a 150hp mild hybrid.

Saves €5 per day on petrol (before prices went crazy) plus cheaper tolls.

 

[Gordon Gekko]

Most are nowadays.

It seems like an ideal solution for most of the issues highlighted in this thread.

 

[Leo]

Look, it's possible to be technically correct and yet misleading at the same time. It is correct to say that the ID3 and the Passat have similar wheelbases. However, when that is used to assert that they are similar category vehicles, it becomes misleading.

At this point I presume you will admit to attempting to mislead given your repeated misstatement of the original point?

 

[Baby boomer]

I test-drove the all-electric Hummer. Can it win over America’s EV skeptics?

A climate-friendly version of the macho, gas-guzzling pickup is aimed at obdurate devotees of US’s supersized car culture

www.theguardian.com

Now, that's an EV to win over the sceptics.

 

[galwegian44]

I don't think it serves any real purpose to talk about the problems associated with a 200km range when there is no car currently on the market that is so limited. The Zoe is about the cheapest EV here and that has a 395km range.

Then check out the Mazda MX-30 with a quoted range of 200KM but the following caveat:

"The Mazda MX-30 range, like all EVs, is dependant on various factors such as individual driving style, speed, route profile, load, ambient temperature, and the use of components in the car that consume electricity (e.g. air conditioning, heated seats)."

I'm getting over the range issue slowly but my main issue is the lack of charging facilities on longer journeys. Whenever I pull in anywhere that has charging facilities I imagine I'm driving an electric car to get a feel for the experience. Recently I picked up my daughter in Dublin and pulled in to the Kilcullen Service Station to grab a McDonalds for her. I parked beside the charging units and we were there for about 35 minutes. All 4 units were in use during our time there so that's 35 minutes (minimum) waiting for a charger before sitting around for however long to charge the car on top of that. Struggling with the thought of this.

 

[galwegian44]

People who mostly fly to where they are going and rent a car.
They just apply that same thinking to domestic holidays.

At Irish Car Rental prices?

 

[galwegian44]

If you compare the current selling price inclusive of grants etc v the EQUIVALENT ICE car from the same manufacturer most arent that much more expensive at all.

I'm driving a diesel 2.2l Mazda 6 which would cost €38k to replace new.

Where can I get a comparably priced EV please?

I've procrastinated for 8 months now and change my mind daily between EV and ICE. The top 3 EV cars that I've tested and see as comparable are the VW ID4, Tesla Model 3, and Kia EV6. All are considerably more expensive. As soon as I convinced myself that it was a good idea to expand my budget to €54k, my thoughts and wandering eye turned to the BMW 3 Series hybrid.

Tomorrow, I will be on this thread advocating the purchase of an EV!!

 

[Leo]

Then check out the Mazda MX-30 with a quoted range of 200KM but the following caveat:

Seems a strange choice from Mazda to put that small a battery in that, can't see it selling all that well here.

EV & ICE ranges are always quoted with lots of caveats. I don't usually get within 25% of the quotes mileage of my current petrol car unless I significantly alter my driving.

I'm getting over the range issue slowly but my main issue is the lack of charging facilities on longer journeys.

Yeah, certainly a mot more work to be done there before long journeys are a non-issue.

 

[Leo]

Tomorrow, I will be on this thread advocating the purchase of an EV!!

Unless you buy the hybrid, and then you will be convincing us all it;s the way to go

 

[Blackrock1]

I'm driving a diesel 2.2l Mazda 6 which would cost €38k to replace new.

Where can I get a comparably priced EV please?

I've procrastinated for 8 months now and change my mind daily between EV and ICE. The top 3 EV cars that I've tested and see as comparable are the VW ID4, Tesla Model 3, and Kia EV6. All are considerably more expensive. As soon as I convinced myself that it was a good idea to expand my budget to €54k, my thoughts and wandering eye turned to the BMW 3 Series hybrid.

Tomorrow, I will be on this thread advocating the purchase of an EV!!

If you asked me to compare the price of your Mazda 6 with an electric Mazda 6 then we could look at it, what i was referring to is comparing an ID4 to a Tiguan or an ID3 to a golf.

 

[RetirementPlan]

At Irish Car Rental prices?

Compare Irish car rental prices to Irish car purchase prices, Irish car insurance prices, Irish car maintenance prices and Irish car tax prices.

 

[Itchy]

Seems a strange choice from Mazda to put that small a battery in that, can't see it selling all that well here.

As far as I recall, that was a deliberate strategy by Mazda. The high upfront cost of EV's is in the battery primarily. By reducing the size of the battery, they have reduced the upfront cost and lowered the emissions "breakeven" point for the car. But they have banked on people getting over the range anxiety of needing 600km range for their 50km daily commute and also an extensive charging network which increases the utility of the car. To your point though, neither of those issues have meaningfully improved since its introduction.

 

[galwegian44]

Compare Irish car rental prices to Irish car purchase prices, Irish car insurance prices, Irish car maintenance prices and Irish car tax prices.

Fair point. I think I'm subject to a lot of behavioral psychology habits also which is setting the bar too high for what's available right now in the EV market, I believe in time it will be a no-brainer to switch to an EV.

But for now, my entrenched psychological traits are saying that my driving enjoyment will be diminished in a EV because:

1) I cannot find a comparable EV to replace my diesel Mazda 6 (comparable in price, driving enjoyment and feel good factor)
2) I'm reluctant to changing my driving style to plan my longer journeys, even if they only make up 5-10% of my trips
3) For those 5-10% of trips, I shudder at the thought of queuing for x minutes to sit and charge for 1 - 2 hours

It may not sound like it but I really want to buy an EV, I just want it on my terms. I'm at that stage where I'm thinking of downsizing the house and just realised that the smaller terrace houses and apartments that we've talked about are not suitable for home charging. So many aspects to be aware of to ensure the best decision. It's great to have this discussion with like-minded and non-like-minded (?) people, thanks Askaboutmoney.

 

[Baby boomer]

Fair point. I think I'm subject to a lot of behavioral psychology habits also which is setting the bar too high for what's available right now in the EV market, I believe in time it will be a no-brainer to switch to an EV.

But for now, my entrenched psychological traits are saying that my driving enjoyment will be diminished in a EV because:

1) I cannot find a comparable EV to replace my diesel Mazda 6 (comparable in price, driving enjoyment and feel good factor)
2) I'm reluctant to changing my driving style to plan my longer journeys, even if they only make up 5-10% of my trips
3) For those 5-10% of trips, I shudder at the thought of queuing for x minutes to sit and charge for 1 - 2 hours

It may not sound like it but I really want to buy an EV, I just want it on my terms. I'm at that stage where I'm thinking of downsizing the house and just realised that the smaller terrace houses and apartments that we've talked about are not suitable for home charging. So many aspects to be aware of to ensure the best decision. It's great to have this discussion with like-minded and non-like-minded (?) people, thanks Askaboutmoney.

Excellent post. You sum up the main issues at the moment with EVs - range and price. Like you, I would love if these didn't exist, but they do, and no amount of pooh-poohing from the EV zealots will change that. What will change it is:
1. when EVs drop in price to ICE levels and below
2. when range increases to a reliable 500km or so and you don't need an app to plan a journey.
These things should happen in the next 5 years or so. When they do, EVs will become a no-brainer. Just like LED lightbulbs have seen off CFLs and incandescent. Until then, it is very hard to make the economics work, yet alone accept the hassle and grief of frequent and problematic recharging.