EV Vs ICE Issues: Range

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RetirementPlan said:
Not necessarily.

You might well be better off with a 'standard' EV for most of your mileage, and renting something different when you need that extra space. If you transport a fridge once a year, it doesn't make sense to buy a vehicle that can comfortably transport a fridge, and have it transporting one person and a sports bag for most of the year. If you need to transport six people for one or two weekends a year, it makes little sense to buy a seven seater and travel round with six empty seats for most of the year. Car sharing and car renting can supplement car ownership.
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Yea, maybe, but it's more hassle. I don't need more hassle.
 
My main issue is the 2nd car is manual warmish hatch. It my fun car :) I don't want to give it up to a auto.
 
losttheplot said:
I remember meeting a guy with a 1st generation Leaf, 120km range. Chargers were still free to use at the time and few other EVs on the road, so never a queue.
He was excited that he could drive Dublin to Galway for FREE. Stopping multiple times to charge didn't bother him, increased journey times didn't bother him. It was all free. He saw himself as a pioneer and said he would still be driving the same car in ten years.
Would love to know if he still is.
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I wonder what percentage of the population could live with that car for 360 days a year. Quite a lot I would suggest.
 
I've heard it all now:
- range anxiety isn't a problem
- EVs are good value (the SEAI grant!!!!!)
- and an ID3 is comparable to a Passat.

Pull the other one, folks. I get why people want to promote EV use. I get there are advantages. I've listed the pros and cons myself, very fairly, I'd have thought. But why oh why, do EV evangelists determinedly ignore the reality that there are also flaws? Range and price. Even if you are willing to accept the cut-down range, and I accept it's not a problem for quite a few people, you've still got a MASSIVE price differential over ICE. Given that there's a general consensus that EV prices will align with ICE over the next half decade, that implies huge depreciation on an EV purchased today. As we're posting on askaboutmoney, that's kinda significant!

Perhaps a thought that might explain the strange attitudes. My theory is that many EV owners don't really like cars and just don't get car enthusiasts at all. If they did, and if they wanted to convert petrolheads to EV owners, they would surely emphasize the one great appeal that EVs have for car enthusiasts, namely performance. EVs have stunning acceleration and leave ICEs a long way behind. Yet this is hardly mentioned by most EV advocates. It's almost like they're either a bit embarrassed to mention it, or else it just doesn't seem to occur to them. Only Tesla, it seems, make a virtue of promoting their EVs as exciting and fun.

And isn't exciting and fun a better selling proposition than dull, probably quite adequate and virtuous?
 
Baby boomer said:
Given that there's a general consensus that EV prices will align with ICE over the next half decade, that implies huge depreciation on an EV purchased today
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Yep, with next generation batteries which will double the energy density it just seems too early to buy an EV.
 
Baby boomer said:
I've heard it all now:
- range anxiety isn't a problem
- EVs are good value (the SEAI grant!!!!!)
- and an ID3 is comparable to a Passat.

Pull the other one, folks. I get why people want to promote EV use. I get there are advantages. I've listed the pros and cons myself, very fairly, I'd have thought. But why oh why, do EV evangelists determinedly ignore the reality that there are also flaws? Range and price. Even if you are willing to accept the cut-down range, and I accept it's not a problem for quite a few people, you've still got a MASSIVE price differential over ICE. Given that there's a general consensus that EV prices will align with ICE over the next half decade, that implies huge depreciation on an EV purchased today. As we're posting on askaboutmoney, that's kinda significant!

Perhaps a thought that might explain the strange attitudes. My theory is that many EV owners don't really like cars and just don't get car enthusiasts at all. If they did, and if they wanted to convert petrolheads to EV owners, they would surely emphasize the one great appeal that EVs have for car enthusiasts, namely performance. EVs have stunning acceleration and leave ICEs a long way behind. Yet this is hardly mentioned by most EV advocates. It's almost like they're either a bit embarrassed to mention it, or else it just doesn't seem to occur to them. Only Tesla, it seems, make a virtue of promoting their EVs as exciting and fun.

And isn't exciting and fun a better selling proposition than dull, probably quite adequate and virtuous?
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I am a car enthusiast, ive owned several performance ICE cars, mostly BMW M cars but a few others as well. I have only had one EV, so if i am an evangelist or enthusiast of anything its a large engined bmw of which i have owned more than 10 rather than an EV of which i have only owned one.

What bothers me is the general ignorance to the advantages of EVs and the overexaggeration of the disdvantages.

If you compare the current selling price inclusive of grants etc v the EQUIVALENT ICE car from the same manufacturer most arent that much more expensive at all.

And an ID3 has the same wheelbase and interior space as a passat i dont know why that bothers you so much, VW have said this themselves.
 
PGF2016 said:
If it's too early to buy an EV then the alternative is ICE. Do you expect less depreciation with an ICE?
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The optimum strategy at the moment is to hold off vehicle purchase and keep your existing vehicle on the road. If you need to buy, good for a used ICE that will tide you over until EV prices fall.
 
Baby boomer said:
I've heard it all now:
- range anxiety isn't a problem
- EVs are good value (the SEAI grant!!!!!)
- and an ID3 is comparable to a Passat.
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Nobody has said range anxiety isn't a problem. Everyone is saying it's much less of a problem than most people think. And I think that's borne out by many here indicating they don't travel long distance all that often.

Baby boomer said:
The optimum strategy at the moment is to hold off vehicle purchase and keep your existing vehicle on the road. If you need to buy, good for a used ICE that will tide you over until EV prices fall.
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This is the optimum strategy most of the time! Hold onto the vehicle you have.
 
Baby boomer said:
I've heard it all now:
- range anxiety isn't a problem
- EVs are good value (the SEAI grant!!!!!)
- and an ID3 is comparable to a Passat.

Pull the other one, folks. I get why people want to promote EV use. I get there are advantages. I've listed the pros and cons myself, very fairly, I'd have thought. But why oh why, do EV evangelists determinedly ignore the reality that there are also flaws? Range and price. Even if you are willing to accept the cut-down range, and I accept it's not a problem for quite a few people, you've still got a MASSIVE price differential over ICE. Given that there's a general consensus that EV prices will align with ICE over the next half decade, that implies huge depreciation on an EV purchased today. As we're posting on askaboutmoney, that's kinda significant!

Perhaps a thought that might explain the strange attitudes. My theory is that many EV owners don't really like cars and just don't get car enthusiasts at all. If they did, and if they wanted to convert petrolheads to EV owners, they would surely emphasize the one great appeal that EVs have for car enthusiasts, namely performance. EVs have stunning acceleration and leave ICEs a long way behind. Yet this is hardly mentioned by most EV advocates. It's almost like they're either a bit embarrassed to mention it, or else it just doesn't seem to occur to them. Only Tesla, it seems, make a virtue of promoting their EVs as exciting and fun.

And isn't exciting and fun a better selling proposition than dull, probably quite adequate and virtuous?
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Because going in a boring straight line fast is only a tiny part of why most car enthusiasts like cars. I would suggest you don't know petrol heads that well.

Colin Chapman “Simplify, then add lightness”
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EVs aren't that interesting to most petrol heads. EVs are about tech and efficiency and convenience. That's what appeals to people, and the environment.

Price is the main obstacle.
 
AlbacoreA said:
EVs aren't that interesting to most petrol heads. EVs are about tech and efficiency and convenience. That's what appeals to people, and the environment.
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Petrol heads? Why are they so in love with a fossil fuel? And a noisy engine.

And yes - I know it's more nuanced and not as simple as that.
 
If only there was something that gave the best of both worlds?

i.e. the ability to do 90% of one’s motoring on electric power but also the ability to drive using coventional fuel if needs be.

Imagine…you could drive to the shops, drop the kids off, go to the gym, or do a reasonably normal commute, all on a single charge.

But you could also drive to Killarney/Donegal/whereever if you fancied it.

It would be perfect and a game changer.
 
Gordon Gekko said:
If only there was something that gave the best of both worlds?

i.e. the ability to do 90% of one’s motoring on electric power but also the ability to drive using coventional fuel if needs be.

Imagine…you could drive to the shops, drop the kids off, go to the gym, or do a reasonably normal commute, all on a single charge.

But you could also drive to Killarney/Donegal/whereever if you fancied it.

It would be perfect and a game changer.
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It’s a fudge and it will be short lived.
 
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