That's written almost a year ago. I've since watched a Prime Time special on the subject and it was embarrassing to see the amount of broken down charging points across the country when drivers arrived to charge their vehicles. Not a very nice thing to happen to a sales rep, business person or similar trying to carry out some work. Attempting to force people into buying EV's is a tad silly when the infrastructure and plenty more things are not there. However if you want to buy one by all means go ahead but don't pretend for one second it's the answer to anything.
Two EV family here; have never come across a fast charger not working. Have encountered needing to queue, though not since they began billing for charging last year. It’s not a non-existent issue, but it is not common at all.Or being just in time for a charge up and finding the thing doesn't work. Fairly common i'm told
There have been and continue to be thousands upon thousands of children killed in the various wars in the Middle East which have been as a direct result of the West’s need for oil/petrol/diesel. Hundreds of thousands more live in dreadful conditions because of oppressive regimes propped up by oil money....and children aren't worked to death in The Congo to mine the minerals used in a petrol car, unlike the battery in an electric car.
I understood you posing the question "Is there really a strong environmental case for electric vehicles?" followed by a list of issues with EVs as you arguing against them. Maybe I misunderstood.Who's arguing against electric vehicles?
Just pointing out that there is a difference between marketing and facts and while EV's certainly have no tailpipe emissions they do have a significant carbon footprint and if you own an efficient modern petrol or diesel car and do low mileage the best thing you can do for the environment, globally, is keep it.I understood you posing the question "Is there really a strong environmental case for electric vehicles?" followed by a list of issues with EVs as you arguing against them. Maybe I misunderstood.
... Who's arguing against electric vehicles?
I'll put a few thoughts out there, seeing as you've asked:
* There is a cost to the environment in manufactory every new electric vehicle. Materials used have to come from somewhere, while there is associated polution from same. That cost needs to be recouped, before we can all start claiming they make a net positive contribution to current environmental problems caused by Diesel and Petrol cars.
* Given the cost of purchasing a new electric car and the subsequent depreciation rate (keeping in mind the likely life of the battery and cost of replacing same, or more likely scrapping the car), the monetary cost to motorists is prohibitive. The lifespan of a well maintained petrol or diesel car is 3-5 times more than an electric car. So why not maintain and improve your existing car, rather than further negatively impact on the environment by producing lots more new electric cars over the next 15-20 years?
The average decline in energy storage is 2.3% per year. For a 150-mile EV, you’re likely to lose 17 miles of accessible range after five years.
Liquid-cooled batteries decline slower than air-cooled packs. Geotab saw that a 2015 Tesla Model S with liquid cooling had an average annual degradation rate of 2.3%, compared to an air-cooled 2015 Nissan Leaf’s rate of 4.2%.
* Electricity to power the vehicles has to come from somewhere. Do we over extend the national grid by bringing more electric vehicles onto the network, requiring regular charges? Do we wait until we have more wind and solar or wave power being generated first and what of the cost of putting same in place (money and impact on the environment from sourcing the required materials)? Do we run more cables under water to source electricity from the UK and France, where Nuclear power is a common feature and by extension, embrace a power source that we've opposed for decades due to risk is major accident etc?
There are far fewer moving parts on an EV and no explosions propelling them forward. Also less wear and tear on brakes.The lifespan of a well maintained petrol or diesel car is 3-5 times more than an electric car.
... How could the lifespan be longer on the more complex combustion engines? Nevermind 3 to 5 times longer?
Baffling.
Cost of manufacturing, just an argument for not buying any car. Not specifically EVs.
Incorrect, sorry - lots of petrol or diesel engine cars are being produced far cheaper than electric cars. If they weren't, then the government wouldn't have to try and subsidise the electric cars to try and get people to buy them, they'd sell more if they were cheaper.
The depreciation thus has been at worst the same and usually better than the equivalent ICE Car.
ICE Car?
Battery degradation...
8 lessons about EV battery health from 6,300 electric cars - Electrek
The average decline in energy storage is 2.3% per year. For a 150-mile EV, you’re likely to lose 17 miles of accessible range after five years.ww.electrek.co
Not all EVs are the same. So making sweeping generalisation are not useful.
Not all petrol or diesel cars are the same either, but there is very little concern about the ability to sell them secondhand in the years to come (price is a different issue obviously). There is endless concern about the lifespan of electric cars and what secondhand market might exist for the current crop of electric cars, with potential for technology to progress or change completely, batteries to need to be replaced but be too expensive to justify replacing, electronics failing, software not being updated etc. Do a little research to check, don't just search for something to suit your own point of view
Nissan starts new program to replace old LEAF battery packs - Electrek
Nissan is launching a new program today to replace old LEAF battery packs with “refabricated” packs at a discount over new packs. Electric car battery packs inevitably lose some of their capacity over time after some use. It’s generally fairly limited to a few percentage points, but when it...ww.electrek.co
Lot of information about our energy consumption and demand here...
The electronics aren't EV specific. They are shared with their ICE counterparts so that's not an EV concern. I don't see why a Kona with 450km range couldn't be useful in 20 years time. Yet more FUD.There are lots of old cars still being driven regularly today, that are 20-30 years old and run on petrol or diesel engines. You won't see the current fleet of electric cars still in day to day use in 20-30 year time, or more. Batteries will have died, too many electronics will have given up etc.
..
Incorrect, sorry - lots of petrol or diesel engine cars are being produced far cheaper than electric cars. If they weren't, then the government wouldn't have to try and subsidise the electric cars to try and get people to buy them, they'd sell more if they were cheaper.
ICE Car?
Not all petrol or diesel cars are the same either, but there is very little concern about the ability to sell them secondhand in the years to come (price is a different issue obviously). There is endless concern about the lifespan of electric cars and what secondhand market might exist for the current crop of electric cars, with potential for technology to progress or change completely, batteries to need to be replaced but be too expensive to justify replacing, electronics failing, software not being updated etc. Do a little research to check, don't just search for something to suit your own point of view
It's a tragedy some tree huggers are buying into and totally false economy. However it is suiting politicians and others in order to show they're doing something about something, but we, who know better, are being forced to buy them. Today's batteries will be seen to be so silly in a couple of years and at what cost to replace and then find out they can't be replaced with better one's as the car won't be able to take them. I genuinely feel today's buyers are going to get totally screwed and it will lose them multibles of thousands of Euro's. I make no apology for my vehement anti ev opinion and nothing seen on here would convince any half intelligent human being into buying an ev today that will have no resale value tomorrow.
I'll put a few thoughts out there, seeing as you've asked:
* There is a cost to the environment in manufactory every new electric vehicle. Materials used have to come from somewhere, while there is associated polution from same. That cost needs to be recouped, before we can all start claiming they make a net positive contribution to current environmental problems caused by Diesel and Petrol cars.
* Given the cost of purchasing a new electric car and the subsequent depreciation rate (keeping in mind the likely life of the battery and cost of replacing same, or more likely scrapping the car), the monetary cost to motorists is prohibitive. The lifespan of a well maintained petrol or diesel car is 3-5 times more than an electric car. So why not maintain and improve your existing car, rather than further negatively impact on the environment by producing lots more new electric cars over the next 15-20 years?
* Electricity to power the vehicles has to come from somewhere. Do we over extend the national grid by bringing more electric vehicles onto the network, requiring regular charges? Do we wait until we have more wind and solar or wave power being generated first and what of the cost of putting same in place (money and impact on the environment from sourcing the required materials)? Do we run more cables under water to source electricity from the UK and France, where Nuclear power is a common feature and by extension, embrace a power source that we've opposed for decades due to risk is major accident etc?
How's that, for a bit of opposition to electric cars?
I make no apology for my vehement anti diesel opinion and nothing seen on here would convince any half intelligent human being into buying an out dated technology such as the diesel engine today that will have no resale value tomorrow.It's a tragedy some tree huggers are buying into and totally false economy. However it is suiting politicians and others in order to show they're doing something about something, but we, who know better, are being forced to buy them. Today's batteries will be seen to be so silly in a couple of years and at what cost to replace and then find out they can't be replaced with better one's as the car won't be able to take them. I genuinely feel today's buyers are going to get totally screwed and it will lose them multibles of thousands of Euro's. I make no apology for my vehement anti ev opinion and nothing seen on here would convince any half intelligent human being into buying an ev today that will have no resale value tomorrow.
Agreed. I was not being serious.There are still a lot of situations where a diesel or petrol is needed as there is no reasonable alternative.
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