Key Post Electric Vehicles

[lledlledlled]

EVs don't allow you access the entire battery capacity, so when it seys 100% on the dash the battery isn't actually at 100%, and when it says 0% it's not at 0%. Leafs have an option to only charge to 80% called "Long life battery mode" but it has been removed from recent models and the data from so many EVs in the wild seem to be suggesting that charging to 100% is not as big a deal as originally thought. What is an issue though is charging to 100% and leaving it there for a prolonged amount of time. You'll notice Apple phones now have the option to only begin charging your phone close to when you get up to ensure that while it will get to 100%, it won't stay there for long as you begin using it.

If you have the option in the car to only charge to 80% and you don't need the extra charge then by all means use it (I do), but if you're driving the car regularly and you do need that extra bit of cushion from the range then do not worry about charging to 100%, just enoy the car...

I very much enjoy the car but am still a little paranoid about the range. My e-Golf gets a max 200km on a charge, but closer to 160km in winter conditions. Most days in work I have access to a free charger.
About once a week, the charger is unavailable. This is fine but the next day it's crucial that I get a full charge. Especially if it's a Friday, as I need a full charge for weekend.
Given the fact that I'm usually plugging in at around 40% battery, I only really need 3hrs to get to 100%.
But given the fact that I'm busy in work, it's usually stuck on charge for approx 9hrs.
I guess I could/should get in the habit of plugging it out at lunchtime

 

[Purple]

Is there really a strong environmental case for electric vehicles?
New petrol cars emit about 1% of the pollution of cars from the 1960's and are getting cleaner. Most comparisons are made between the current average emissions from petrol cars but that fleet is a mix of old and new cars. The comparison should be between new electric cars and new petrol cars. Given that our electricity is generated by burning oil, peat and natural gas, with the oil transported here on ships and the peat transported on Diesel trains and trucks and our power stations are generally old and inefficient is it really cleaner?
The carbon footprint to make an average EV is 8 tonnes. As a general rule petrol cars are, on average, lower than this.
Given that the manufacturers total Carbon footprint of a car is only about 12% with the rest being in the metal extraction, rubber manufacture, plastics manufacture etc and that the "tailpipe" pollution of the average car which lasts 100,000 miles only accounts for half of its total carbon footprint it is usually far more environmentally friendly to just keep your internal combustion engine car and run it until it gets to 200,000 miles. More here.

Of course if you want to save the planet just cut back on your meat consumption as, according to George Monbiot of The Guardian, the carbon footprint of a return flight to New York is the same as 16 hamburgers.

... and children aren't worked to death in The Congo to mine the minerals used in a petrol car, unlike the battery in an electric car.

 

[AlbacoreA]

Is there really a strong environmental case for electric vehicles?
New petrol cars emit about 1% of the pollution of cars from the 1960's and are getting cleaner. Most comparisons are made between the current average emissions from petrol cars but that fleet is a mix of old and new cars. The comparison should be between new electric cars and new petrol cars. Given that our electricity is generated by burning oil, peat and natural gas, with the oil transported here on ships and the peat transported on Diesel trains and trucks and our power stations are generally old and inefficient is it really cleaner?
The carbon footprint to make an average EV is 8 tonnes. As a general rule petrol cars are, on average, lower than this.
Given that the manufacturers total Carbon footprint of a car is only about 12% with the rest being in the metal extraction, rubber manufacture, plastics manufacture etc and that the "tailpipe" pollution of the average car which lasts 100,000 miles only accounts for half of its total carbon footprint it is usually far more environmentally friendly to just keep your internal combustion engine car and run it until it gets to 200,000 miles. More here.

Of course if you want to save the planet just cut back on your meat consumption as, according to George Monbiot of The Guardian, the carbon footprint of a return flight to New York is the same as 16 hamburgers.

... and children aren't worked to death in The Congo to mine the minerals used in a petrol car, unlike the battery in an electric car.

They say its more efficient to created energy in one large power station than lots of small engines.
Also EVs use energy more efficiently. Less wasteful.
Sure run an old car uses less resources to make. But its far more polluting. TBH its air quality thats caused a backlash against diesel.


Diesel is still the biggest seller.

Diesel accounted for 47 per cent of all vehicles registered, with petrol accounting for 41 per cent. Hybrid, electric and plug-in hybrid all gained market share last year with hybrid now accounting for 9 per cent of all vehicles registered and electric for 3 per cent.

 

[Purple]

They say its more efficient to created energy in one large power station than lots of small engines.
Also EVs use energy more efficiently. Less wasteful.

Even if the power station is 50 years old? Even if it burns turf?
Given the massive reductions in emissions and increased in fuel efficiency of petrol engines the main lifetime carbon footprint of non EV cars will move from tailpipe emissions to embedded or production and supply chain emissions;

• How was the metal produced, was it mined (and if so how) or recycled?
• Where was the car assembled and how was it shipped to the selled and purchaser?
• How global is the supply chain and how are parts delivered to the assembly line?
• How were the polymers produced, were they new or recycled?
• Does the manufacturer have a green factory? Does is have a green supply chain?

Sure run an old car uses less resources to make. But its far more polluting. TBH its air quality thats caused a backlash against diesel.

Less polluting are the point of use, not less polluting overall.

 

[AlbacoreA]

Well that's what they say.
Average age of cars in Ireland is 8.7 years.
The vast majority are diesel.

How really trust worthy are any of these figures.

Air Quality In Bergen, Norway's EV Capitol, Better Than At Any Time Since 2003 - CleanTechnica

Bergen, Norway, is enjoying the best air quality in 15 years. That's largely due to it being the electric car capitol of Norway, but there are other factors involved as well.

www.google.com

 

[Purple]

Well that's what they say.
Average age of cars in Ireland is 8.7 years.
The vast majority are diesel.

So, if we replaced them with EV's or we replaced them with clean petrol engine cars what would the total carbon footprint be over a lifespan of 200,000Km?

How really trust worthy are any of these figures.

Air Quality In Bergen, Norway's EV Capitol, Better Than At Any Time Since 2003 - CleanTechnica

Bergen, Norway, is enjoying the best air quality in 15 years. That's largely due to it being the electric car capitol of Norway, but there are other factors involved as well.

www.google.com

Air quality and overall environmental impact are two very different things.
We sometimes look for local improvements without looking at the total global environmental cost.
For example we have very high environmental standards in agriculture in Europe and as a result grow less food than we could and import more than we could. The global net effect is that the EU's high environmental standards cause an increase in total climate damage.

 

[EmmDee]

Of course if you want to save the planet just cut back on your meat consumption as, according to George Monbiot of The Guardian, the carbon footprint of a return flight to New York is the same as 16 hamburgers.

It's not binary - you can do both

 

[AlbacoreA]

If you look at environment globally. We have no effect.

Top 5 most polluting countries

Discover which nations pump most carbon dioxide emissions into the atmosphere

www.activesustainability.com

Best we can do is improve our local environment.

The reason the average age of cars is 8.7 years is affordability. We can't replace them all with new cars, its unrealistic.
In 10~20yrs (200k life span) the tech will have improved.

Electric cars: the race to replace cobalt

Manufacturers want batteries that are not dependent on metals from unstable parts of the world

www.ft.com

Also its not just EV's that use these environmental unfriendly materials. Its basically all tech that uses a battery.

How we get to the next big battery breakthrough

Lithium-ion batteries changed the world. The next battery technology will change it again. But what will it take to get there?

qz.com

 

[Purple]

It's not binary - you can do both

Sure, but I'd rather eat 16 less burgers over the year than not go on holidays.

 

[Purple]

If you look at environment globally. We have no effect.

Top 5 most polluting countries

Discover which nations pump most carbon dioxide emissions into the atmosphere

www.activesustainability.com

That article ignored agriculture as a source of pollution and the opportunity cost of growing meat instead of trees, concentrating only on emissions. Bad journalism.

Best we can do is improve our local environment.

No, we can choose not to put food that was flown into the country. We can choose to eat less meat. We can choose to wear a jumper and turn down the heat. We can choose not to buy an SUV. We can choose to recycle. We can choose not to buy products which cause massive pollution at their manufacturing stage. There's loads of things we can do.

The reason the average age of cars is 8.7 years is affordability. We can't replace them all with new cars, its unrealistic.
In 10~20yrs (200k life span) the tech will have improved.

I agree. Cars account for about 10% of global climate change and about half of that occurs before the engine it turned on the first time.

Also its not just EV's that use these environmental unfriendly materials. Its basically all tech that uses a battery.

How we get to the next big battery breakthrough

Lithium-ion batteries changed the world. The next battery technology will change it again. But what will it take to get there?

qz.com

I agree. We are better off concentrating on putting renewable energy (wind, solar, nuclear) into the existing grid and expanding grids in developing countries so that they burn less wood and coal and stop using Diesel generators.

 

[AlbacoreA]

D

That article ignored agriculture as a source of pollution and the opportunity cost of growing meat instead of trees, concentrating only on emissions. Bad journalism.

No, we can choose not to put food that was flown into the country. We can choose to eat less meat. We can choose to wear a jumper and turn down the heat. We can choose not to buy an SUV. We can choose to recycle. We can choose not to buy products which cause massive pollution at their manufacturing stage. There's loads of things we can do.

I agree. Cars account for about 10% of global climate change and about half of that occurs before the engine it turned on the first time.


I agree. We are better off concentrating on putting renewable energy (wind, solar, nuclear) into the existing grid and expanding grids in developing countries so that they burn less wood and coal and stop using Diesel generators.

This thread is about Electric vehicles. Not about how having a burger effects someone in a Soylant green mine in China.
Not that they aren't related, but you could potential derail every thread with the "butterfly effect" (small things non-linear impacts on complex systems).

If you discount EV's because of the environmental cost of a new vehicle the same applies to new more efficient ICE or even a fuel cell one.
Even more with a fuel cell due the infrastructure required.

EV's will not replace all vehicles for a variety of reasons. But in terms of local impact they should not be ignored.

 

[Alkers86]

One thing that people are missing is that aside from environmental reasons and financial savings, EVs are a much nicer ride / drive than similar segment ICE vehicles. Now I'm not talking about sports cars, V8s etc but the performance and lack of noise etc compares very favorably to the ICE equivalent. If all other things were equal, I'd still chose EV.

 

[losttheplot]

One thing that people are missing is that aside from environmental reasons and financial savings, EVs are a much nicer ride / drive than similar segment ICE vehicles. Now I'm not talking about sports cars, V8s etc but the performance and lack of noise etc compares very favorably to the ICE equivalent. If all other things were equal, I'd still chose EV.

And cheaper servicing. Also the car being preheated and defrosted on a cold morning

 

[AlbacoreA]

Not having to go to a petrol station, especially last thing at night.

 

[noproblem]

Not having to go to a petrol station, especially last thing at night.

Or being just in time for a charge up and finding the thing doesn't work. Fairly common i'm told

 

[AlbacoreA]

Or being just in time for a charge up and finding the thing doesn't work. Fairly common i'm told

Define common...

Approximately 98% of single-trip journeys are under 80km meaning that the majority of charging can be done at home.

The impression I got from the EV forums, is not to get one if you will need to rely on street charging.
Vast majority charge at home, and then at destination (work etc).
But last time I was really looking into it was a while ago. I don't know if that opinion has changed. If the network has improved.

 

[noproblem]

Define common.

boundless, broad, common, comprehensive, current, diffuse, epidemic, far-flung, far-reaching, general, overall, pervasive, popular, prevailing, prevalent, public, rampant, regnant, rife, ruling. Or if you like, something known to happen on a regular basis. Is that ok or will I ask Alexa for more information?

 

[AlbacoreA]

Found more details.

‘We know that 80 per cent of charging of EVs in Ireland comes from a combination of home charging, 50 per cent, and work charging, 30 per cent. So the remainder which is made up of 15 per cent using public charging points and 5 per cent using motorway charging points is very much in the minority,”

Are there enough charging points for EVs?

Electric vehicles have already beaten 2018's sales, but charging questions remain

www.irishtimes.com

 

[noproblem]

Found more details.

Are there enough charging points for EVs?

Electric vehicles have already beaten 2018's sales, but charging questions remain

www.irishtimes.com

That's written almost a year ago. I've since watched a Prime Time special on the subject and it was embarrassing to see the amount of broken down charging points across the country when drivers arrived to charge their vehicles. Not a very nice thing to happen to a sales rep, business person or similar trying to carry out some work. Attempting to force people into buying EV's is a tad silly when the infrastructure and plenty more things are not there. However if you want to buy one by all means go ahead but don't pretend for one second it's the answer to anything.

 

[PGF2016]

That's written almost a year ago. I've since watched a Prime Time special on the subject and it was embarrassing to see the amount of broken down charging points across the country when drivers arrived to charge their vehicles. Not a very nice thing to happen to a sales rep, business person or similar trying to carry out some work. Attempting to force people into buying EV's is a tad silly when the infrastructure and plenty more things are not there. However if you want to buy one by all means go ahead but don't pretend for one second it's the answer to anything.

No one has suggested a sales rep with high mileage should drop their diesel.

How are people being forced into buying an EV?

They most certainly are an answer to local air quality caused by Diesel SUVs around schools. Bikes and walking are obviously preferable.

EVs are not perfect but your massive bias against them is hard to understand. The FUD is nonsense.